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 "BLEEDING KNIFE OF ZODIAC" Letter

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rand
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PostSubject: Re: "BLEEDING KNIFE OF ZODIAC" Letter   Sun Sep 12, 2010 12:36 pm



I've always thought that the dripping pen was a dripping knife reference. I just got a look at the card in color, and the dripping ink is RED.



Why would a Jester "Forget me not" card have the ink be in RED, like dripping blood? The color scheme is also very unique and artsy. Is it possible that Z painted the card?
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PostSubject: Re: "BLEEDING KNIFE OF ZODIAC" Letter   Sun Sep 12, 2010 12:41 pm

Z did make changes to the Halloween card, so that is an interesting idea.

You would think the card company would have ink be blue or black, not red.
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PostSubject: Re: "BLEEDING KNIFE OF ZODIAC" Letter   Sun Sep 12, 2010 12:49 pm

I had seen the card in color before, and always surmised that Z colored the red parts in, or at the very least the blood drops.

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PostSubject: Re: "BLEEDING KNIFE OF ZODIAC" Letter   Fri Feb 04, 2011 3:01 am

Just stumbling thru the internet, and caught some posts out there on the bleeding knife letter, which we did our best to share with everyone.

Steve Hodel thought the letter was legitimate, as seen on his site- http://207.56.179.67/steve_hodel/2010/09/zodiac-1969-letter-mailed-to-s.html

Other people seemed to say stuff like "hey, didnt Graysmith rule these out as hoax letters in his book?"

And others made comments here- http://zodiackiller.21.forumer.com/a/posts.php?topic=5529&start=

Anyhow, it is great to see the letter debated with some thinking it is fake and others thinking it is legitimate Zodiac. I personally think it is real. I remember we had a discussion some time back that the bleeding knife letter was received by police BEFORE the Berryessa stabbing details were released to the public, which if true, would seem to make it legitimate as up until then he had only shot people. What did we decided on that, my memory is slipping, LOL
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PostSubject: Re: "BLEEDING KNIFE OF ZODIAC" Letter   Tue Apr 10, 2012 9:05 pm

http://207.56.179.67/steve_hodel/2012/02/zodiac-1969-letter-mailed-to-s.html

Hodel has continued to research the "Bleeding Knife" possible Zodiac letter, and makes new comparisons. Kinda interesting stuff...even though I do not agree with his central claim that his father was the Black Dahlia killer (though he was a police suspect and there is some evidence against him) and I particularly strongly disagree with his claim that his father was Zodiac or that the case is connected to Zodiac. Still a few interesting things though.

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PostSubject: Re: "BLEEDING KNIFE OF ZODIAC" Letter   Tue Apr 10, 2012 10:06 pm

Maybe Zodiac was inspired by the Black Dahlia case,or followed it,and got some ideas from that case. No way do I think Hodel's Father was Z

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PostSubject: Re: "BLEEDING KNIFE OF ZODIAC" Letter   Tue Apr 10, 2012 10:26 pm

Oh I agree. If anything I think Z was a student of crime and may have borrowed ideas and styles from Jack the Ripper 'FP' the mad bomber Lindbergh kidnapper and Black Dahlia killer.

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PostSubject: Re: "BLEEDING KNIFE OF ZODIAC" Letter   Wed Sep 05, 2012 2:16 pm

From the new FBI files recovered by Morf, these are the ENVELOPES that held the Fairfield "Bleeding Knife...State is in trouble" and "+ he will be a cop" letters.

I have to kinda change my view, I had leaned slightly to somewhat in favor of these perhaps being real Zodiac letters, with him affecting a different style and tone, but still perhaps being from Zodiac, because parts of them rang true to me and fit with other things.

But these envelopes have ZIP CODES, something no real Z letter has, and the overall feel does not look correct to me. I now have to lean towards these letters probably being fake.






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PostSubject: Re: "BLEEDING KNIFE OF ZODIAC" Letter   Wed Sep 05, 2012 2:33 pm

AK, the envelope writing DOES look like the letter writing from the letters you mentioned. Single stamp,not a giant similarity to zodiac.

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PostSubject: Re: "BLEEDING KNIFE OF ZODIAC" Letter   Wed Sep 05, 2012 5:39 pm

Address is '5+ Mission' or how can I read that? Other letters went to '901 Mission Street'..

QT
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PostSubject: Re: "BLEEDING KNIFE OF ZODIAC" Letter   Wed Sep 05, 2012 7:00 pm

Gosh whatever happened to double postage? "Postage due" on a real Zodiac missive envelope?
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PostSubject: Re: "BLEEDING KNIFE OF ZODIAC" Letter   Wed Sep 05, 2012 7:10 pm

The F's are upside down.


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PostSubject: Re: "BLEEDING KNIFE OF ZODIAC" Letter   Wed Sep 05, 2012 7:46 pm

Quicktrader wrote:
Address is '5+ Mission' or how can I read that? Other letters went to '901 Mission Street'..

QT

I think it means 5th and Mission.
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PostSubject: Re: "BLEEDING KNIFE OF ZODIAC" Letter   Thu Sep 06, 2012 12:29 am

Good points bruce3 and morf, and good work trav and others.

I think the zip code on these envelopes, which do not appear on any (?) confirmed Zodiac envelopes, point to these being probable fakes, as does the single stamp leaving postage due.

I unfortunately must shift from leaning probable real to lean probable FAKE.

These just don't look right.

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PostSubject: Re: "BLEEDING KNIFE OF ZODIAC" Letter   Thu Sep 06, 2012 7:01 am

traveller1st wrote:
The F's are upside down.


TRAV, look closely at the & sign in 5th&mission....you see it? You see how he conects it on the left? Looks like the zodiac comparison to Manalli in which they connect the & sign on the left

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"Back when I was picking beans in Guatemala, we used to make fresh coffee, right off the trees I mean. That was good. This is shit but, hey, I'm in a police station"
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PostSubject: Re: "BLEEDING KNIFE OF ZODIAC" Letter   Thu Sep 06, 2012 7:13 am

Yup I saw it.

I was curious about the f's as well. They look correct but deliberately drawn upside down because of the spacing around them. Not very hot on the 4 at all though. It's not just that it follows through but the shape and space between the prongs isn't good for a match.

Here's some of the best matches so far from Zodiac's own writing. They aren't a million miles of and some are pretty close. The C in Chronicle appears to be derived from Zodiac's lower case c as opposed to his upper case examples.

The other interesting thing is the N in Chronicle. That sweeping center piece is unusual and I don't recall seeing it in anything before but then I haven't had a look this time to be sure.

My stance / feeling on it would be that it was copied but since there is that possibility and that it is maybe altered, an absolute determination can't really be affected.


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PostSubject: Re: "BLEEDING KNIFE OF ZODIAC" Letter   Thu Sep 06, 2012 1:11 pm

Wow...

I'm sorry you guys. I guess I'm off my rocker. That looks absolutely nothing like Zodiac's handwriting, altered, copied or otherwise. scratch


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PostSubject: Re: "BLEEDING KNIFE OF ZODIAC" Letter   Thu Sep 06, 2012 1:17 pm

tahoe27 wrote:
Wow...

I'm sorry you guys. I guess I'm off my rocker. That looks absolutely nothing like Zodiac's handwriting, altered, copied or otherwise. scratch


I agree,overall. The & symbol DOES look like Zodiac's in my opinion,and the upside down f's look like Z when turned right side up. Besides that, I dont think there is alot of similarity.

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"Back when I was picking beans in Guatemala, we used to make fresh coffee, right off the trees I mean. That was good. This is shit but, hey, I'm in a police station"
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PostSubject: Re: "BLEEDING KNIFE OF ZODIAC" Letter   Thu Sep 06, 2012 1:40 pm

What is keeping this knife missive alive is the fact a "knife" is mentioned as well as some similar factors and we have a 'knife' used at LB.Of course,LE and the public knew a 'knife' was used at LB.I am with Tahoe on this one. I could see if this was done in 1974 when Z changed-to some degree- his motif and writing style,etc.;but this missive was composed during the same time (mo./yr.)the 12/20/69 Belli letter was sent and it appears very different from the 1969 series or the 1970 missive group for that matter.
We always leave the door ajar since Z was not a stable person for sure, and that's what I am doing here,but it looks very dim as to it being a Z production.I stand fully corrected if it can be shown otherwise,of course.I would be happy if it was found to be a Z.
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PostSubject: Re: "BLEEDING KNIFE OF ZODIAC" Letter   Wed Feb 13, 2013 4:25 pm

Just kicking this letter around a bit more, I go back and forth with it.


This IS the first site anywhere at anytime that this letter has ever been shown, by the way! Same goes with some of the other letters shown here. It is up to each person to decide if they are from Z, or a copycat

Hope to have one or two more coming soon, DESPITE, the FBI saying they have released to me everything they have on the case, I think a few more have slipped thru the cracks

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"Back when I was picking beans in Guatemala, we used to make fresh coffee, right off the trees I mean. That was good. This is shit but, hey, I'm in a police station"
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PostSubject: Re: "BLEEDING KNIFE OF ZODIAC" Letter   Wed Feb 13, 2013 5:01 pm

Theforeigner wrote:
Theforeigner wrote:
morf13 wrote:
AK Wilks wrote:

The word KNIFE in both looks similar. In my opinion, the K on the car door is more like Z's real, undisguised handwriting, and the bleeding knife may be his after he disguised it.

Concerning the Lake Berryess murder:

As far as I know, the police did NOT share the "by knife" writing on the car door, they kept that a secret from the public.
SO if that is the case, and I sure do belive that it is, then I would say that the VERY close match between "by knife" on the car door written Sep 27, 1969 and the word "knife" written in the possible Zodiac letter postmarked Dec 16, 1969, ca 3 months later, indicate that the "Bleeding knife of Zodiac" indeed could be a true Zodiac letter.

I have reseached to try find any newsreports that mention the lake Berryessa murder car door writing; "By knife" and have not found any in 1969.
Actually I have not been able to find ANY mentioning of the "by knife " until nenwsreports in recent years.

Does anyone know when the info that Zodiac wrote "by knife" on the car door sep 27, 1969, was first released to the public?


In this picture to the right, you can see that LE has concealed the writing "by knife".



Additional reseach on this matter:



I bump one of my old posts in the thred
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PostSubject: Re: "BLEEDING KNIFE OF ZODIAC" Letter   Wed Feb 13, 2013 6:18 pm

I see some similarities,what do you think Foreigner?

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PostSubject: Re: "BLEEDING KNIFE OF ZODIAC" Letter   Wed Feb 13, 2013 6:26 pm

Thought I'd have go at restoring it from copy degradation. Some bits are best guess and mostly the blob on the end of zodiac.

I was wondering why it starts with 'TH' emphasized and whilst I was restoring it I noticed that the 'ing' on 'bleeding' appeared to be done slightly lighter. THing.


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PostSubject: Re: "BLEEDING KNIFE OF ZODIAC" Letter   Wed Feb 13, 2013 7:05 pm

traveller1st wrote:
Thought I'd have go at restoring it from copy degradation. Some bits are best guess and mostly the blob on the end of zodiac.

I was wondering why it starts with 'TH' emphasized and whilst I was restoring it I noticed that the 'ing' on 'bleeding' appeared to be done slightly lighter. THing.


Well done, wonder if the writer means something by 'thing' ?

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"Back when I was picking beans in Guatemala, we used to make fresh coffee, right off the trees I mean. That was good. This is shit but, hey, I'm in a police station"
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PostSubject: Re: "BLEEDING KNIFE OF ZODIAC" Letter   Wed Feb 13, 2013 8:00 pm

Well if it is deliberate it would obviously be in reference to his doing his "Thing". Wonder when the dripping pen card was published to the public. After Dec 16 would be interesting.

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