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 "BLEEDING KNIFE OF ZODIAC" Letter

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PostSubject: Re: "BLEEDING KNIFE OF ZODIAC" Letter   Wed Sep 01, 2010 2:48 am

Just a note... the small "d" in cursive is interesting...
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PostSubject: Re: "BLEEDING KNIFE OF ZODIAC" Letter   Wed Sep 01, 2010 3:18 am

Hi T,

I thought the post about the Fairfield letters was here but discovered it was actually on the now defunct Bystander board and is not retrievable. It was basically just an observation that there are a number of unconfirmed "Zodiac letters" which were postmarked from Fairfield, CA and the handwriting and other qualities of these letters resemble each other much more than Zodiac's. This thread shows two of them but I believe there was another, possibly from 12/69, which may or may not be the "This State Is In Trouble" letter which morf just dug up.

http://zodiackillersite.forummotion.com/unconfirmed-zodiac-letters-mailings-general-discussion-f6/unconfirmed-letters-from-fairfield-ca-question-by-entropy-t118.htm

This would be better discussed in the thread for that letter but the "This State..." letter looks very much like the other Fairfield letters and, it would seem, likely came from the same person as the others. That person could be Zodiac but I think it is far more likely that it was a single dedicated Zodiac hoaxster. The FBI, of course, is obligated to investigate any letter purporting to be from Zodiac so the inclusion of these letters in their files in no way speaks to the legitimacy of the letters.
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PostSubject: Re: "BLEEDING KNIFE OF ZODIAC" Letter   Wed Sep 01, 2010 10:55 am

I see considerable similarities in the F's, regarding the letter and the car door. Same kind of swoop.
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PostSubject: Re: "BLEEDING KNIFE OF ZODIAC" Letter   Wed Sep 01, 2010 11:28 am

AK Wilks wrote:
Excellent work TF.

You might want to post this on ZKF.

Good job. I don't know when the "by knife" was released. But it was concealed on that picture.


Thanks AkWilks, and I will post this over at ZKF at som point.
Unless somone else do it, please feel free to post my findings on whatever forum you want.
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PostSubject: Re: "BLEEDING KNIFE OF ZODIAC" Letter   Wed Sep 01, 2010 2:10 pm

Curious: Is this the actual size of the Bleeding Knife Letter/Card? Or was it smaller? Just pondering....
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PostSubject: Re: "BLEEDING KNIFE OF ZODIAC" Letter   Wed Sep 01, 2010 2:20 pm

morf13 wrote:
Here it is finally, THE BLEEDING KNIFE OF ZODIAC letter possibly from Z ( actually more like a drawing)


The FBI did not give me any other facts, dates, or details regarding this letter. Opinions???

AK - Yeah, looks like it could be index card size.


Last edited by AK Wilks on Wed Sep 01, 2010 2:54 pm; edited 1 time in total
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PostSubject: BLEEDING KNIFE OF ZODIAC" Letter   Wed Sep 01, 2010 2:49 pm

Zo, index size you think? Index Card. That's what Zam thinks. That's why I was tryin to figure out the size, or what it might of been written on?
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PostSubject: Re: "BLEEDING KNIFE OF ZODIAC" Letter   Wed Sep 01, 2010 2:53 pm








I very much doubt the Gaul - Sharp letter was from the real SF Zodiac, but it does share a "ha ha" in common with this 12/16/69 letter (2 vs. 3, though, and both may have been inspired by Jack the Ripper), and there is also a slight similarity in the "dripping" effect on the Gaul - Sharp letter and the "Bleeding Knife of Zodiac" dripping. Both seem to be evoking the same image anyway, blood dripping off a knife. And both may have been inspired by this Jack the Ripper letter, which also has a knife dripping blood at the top of the letter, and a "Ha Ha" in the middle.

Gaul - Sharp murder was 11/21/69.
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PostSubject: Nice...   Fri Sep 03, 2010 4:12 pm

Morf,

Just wanted to say that I've often heard about this letter. It is nice to finally see it, for whatever value it may have. Good work and thanks!
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PostSubject: Re: "BLEEDING KNIFE OF ZODIAC" Letter   Fri Sep 03, 2010 4:22 pm

yarbchris wrote:
Morf,

Just wanted to say that I've often heard about this letter. It is nice to finally see it, for whatever value it may have. Good work and thanks!

Thanks Chris. It may or may not prove useful somehow, but at the very least it is something new to discuss. Feel free to use it on your site, maybe it will help you debunk DK with it... we can only hope.. Very Happy
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PostSubject: Re: "BLEEDING KNIFE OF ZODIAC" Letter   Fri Sep 03, 2010 4:38 pm

morf13 wrote:
yarbchris wrote:
Morf,

Just wanted to say that I've often heard about this letter. It is nice to finally see it, for whatever value it may have. Good work and thanks!

Thanks Chris. It may or may not prove useful somehow, but at the very least it is something new to discuss. Feel free to use it on your site, maybe it will help you debunk DK with it... we can only hope.. Very Happy

Well, Nanette is already working on it, so I have a feeling it'll come in handy in the debunking Very Happy
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PostSubject: Re: "BLEEDING KNIFE OF ZODIAC" Letter   Fri Sep 03, 2010 4:52 pm

MrBungle wrote:
morf13 wrote:
yarbchris wrote:
Morf,

Just wanted to say that I've often heard about this letter. It is nice to finally see it, for whatever value it may have. Good work and thanks!

Thanks Chris. It may or may not prove useful somehow, but at the very least it is something new to discuss. Feel free to use it on your site, maybe it will help you debunk DK with it... we can only hope.. Very Happy

Well, Nanette is already working on it, so I have a feeling it'll come in handy in the debunking Very Happy

Oh no.
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PostSubject: Re: "BLEEDING KNIFE OF ZODIAC" Letter   Fri Sep 03, 2010 4:56 pm

Just wait till MB has his say and say and say and...LOL
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PostSubject: Re: "BLEEDING KNIFE OF ZODIAC" Letter   Fri Sep 03, 2010 4:58 pm

One could point out the '3 drops' from the 'bleeding' pen card-to the drops -6 in number- from the knife.Man was created on the 6th day so 6 is his number.6 is one short of perfection which is 7. Seven in French is sept.You do have a sept. on the Ghia.Just observing...


Last edited by bruce3 on Fri Sep 03, 2010 6:16 pm; edited 2 times in total
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PostSubject: Re: "BLEEDING KNIFE OF ZODIAC" Letter   Fri Sep 03, 2010 5:00 pm

This one I also believe is fake.
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PostSubject: Re: "BLEEDING KNIFE OF ZODIAC" Letter   Fri Sep 03, 2010 5:43 pm

morf13 wrote:
MrBungle wrote:
morf13 wrote:
yarbchris wrote:
Morf,

Just wanted to say that I've often heard about this letter. It is nice to finally see it, for whatever value it may have. Good work and thanks!

Thanks Chris. It may or may not prove useful somehow, but at the very least it is something new to discuss. Feel free to use it on your site, maybe it will help you debunk DK with it... we can only hope.. Very Happy

Well, Nanette is already working on it, so I have a feeling it'll come in handy in the debunking Very Happy

Oh no.

From Nane...oops, I mean DENNIS' board:

Quote :
09/01/10 at 09:00 PM #5
Interesting find. I wonder how many letters are out there floating around.....that were either sent by JT or by copycats all together? This must have been a hectic time... But, I am confused as to why it would be labeled to S.F., but addressed to Fairfield. This is kind of like the suicide note to Mary from the Red Lipstick Killings in Riverside. It surfaces, but no one knows truly whether or not to attribute it to the same person. It is obvious that someone is attempting to disguise their handwriting because identical letters do not hold a natural variation, or they do not look like each other as far as the overall gestalt. I have a class this evening, but I will take a stab at the writing later....

http://denniskaufman.websitetoolbox.com/post?id=4868799
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PostSubject: Re: "BLEEDING KNIFE OF ZODIAC" Letter   Fri Sep 03, 2010 6:18 pm

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/c/a/2007/03/03/MNG37OETI71.DTL

Sooo, the "overwriting" and the FBI's indication of a lack of fluidity would most likely mean "no match" here...
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PostSubject: Re: "BLEEDING KNIFE OF ZODIAC" Letter   Fri Sep 03, 2010 10:06 pm

Zabagliona wrote:
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/c/a/2007/03/03/MNG37OETI71.DTL

Sooo, the "overwriting" and the FBI's indication of a lack of fluidity would most likely mean "no match" here...

He said "A tip-off to copied or disguised handwriting is a lack of "fluency,"


Makes sense to me, if Z did send this letter, he may very well have tried to disguise it.
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PostSubject: Re: "BLEEDING KNIFE OF ZODIAC" Letter   Fri Sep 03, 2010 11:35 pm

morf13 wrote:
Zabagliona wrote:
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/c/a/2007/03/03/MNG37OETI71.DTL

Sooo, the "overwriting" and the FBI's indication of a lack of fluidity would most likely mean "no match" here...

He said "A tip-off to copied or disguised handwriting is a lack of "fluency,"


Makes sense to me, if Z did send this letter, he may very well have tried to disguise it.

Why try to disguise handwriting if you're going to cover the letter with crosshair symbols? It doesn't make sense.
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PostSubject: Re: "BLEEDING KNIFE OF ZODIAC" Letter   Fri Sep 03, 2010 11:42 pm

I would continue my analysis here, except I have been told that people do not like the conclusion I have come to that the letters are not from Z, so I will just say nothing more, I guess.

My conclusion has nothing to do with all of the hard work that people went to to get the letters. I am sure that there are more letters and other Z-related things out there as well, that are either being held back by LE or buried in FBI files.

I think that people need to separate the conclusions that may be drawn about the authenticity of a piece of Z-related data (analysis/logic), from the (emotional) appreciation we all have of the work that goes in to doing a FOIA request, and actually "extracting" the information from the FBI or other large governmental agencies.
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PostSubject: Re: "BLEEDING KNIFE OF ZODIAC" Letter   Fri Sep 03, 2010 11:56 pm

Zabagliona wrote:
I would continue my analysis here, except I have been told that people do not like the conclusion I have come to that the letters are not from Z, so I will just say nothing more, I guess.

My conclusion has nothing to do with all of the hard work that people went to to get the letters. I am sure that there are more letters and other Z-related things out there as well, that are either being held back by LE or buried in FBI files.

I think that people need to separate the conclusions that may be drawn about the authenticity of a piece of Z-related data (analysis/logic), from the (emotional) appreciation we all have of the work that goes in to doing a FOIA request, and actually "extracting" the information from the FBI or other large governmental agencies.

Zag, you are more then welcome to post the pros an cons of this letter. That is what we are all trying to do. Some of this Z stuff is confusing, and I think we all get emotional about it. I posted I thought it was a Z type thing. But honestly, I do not know...... wish I did.... I wish the FBI did. We are all Z obsessed, and getting something new to look at or ponder is HUGH to some of the posters. This is like the free speech forum, so we share our reasons of why or why not we think it is or isn't. I don't think anyone told you not to say anything? And I think we are all grateful to this site, Tom's n Mikes take give us new Z information. SO, carry on....
Zincerely, Zam*
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PostSubject: Re: "BLEEDING KNIFE OF ZODIAC" Letter   Sat Sep 04, 2010 12:04 am

Weird, I have posted that I don't think the letters are from Zodiac, and no one has told me to stop saying what I think. Has anyone else who doesn't see this and the other page as genuine Zodiac writing been told to not post their opinions anymore? If so, let us know.
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PostSubject: Re: "BLEEDING KNIFE OF ZODIAC" Letter   Sat Sep 04, 2010 8:17 am

When new things like this letter get found or brought into the spotlight for Zodiac discussion, they should be shared among various Zodiac forums, at least in my opinion. Yet we see posts like this on another Zodiac forum:

"I was hoping this problem would go away, but it's been several months and I don't see an end in sight. So, we have a new rule:
DO NOT REPOST CONTENT THAT ORIGINATES AT THIS DISCUSSION FORUM TO OTHER SITES.
We are seeing members of this forum put the work in to dig up new and interesting pieces of info, and as soon as it is posted here for discussion, other members repost it for discussion elsewhere.
If you come up with something new, by all means, also include it on your personal site. But to rival Zodiac sites? Please. If other forums need new stuff to discuss, they can get off their asses and put in the work like we do.
I'd hate to have to ban someone for violating this rule, but I will.
It's pretty simple, really: What originates here gets discussed here
."

This post was emailed to me, and I got a chuckle. 'Rival Zodiac sites'?? Are you serious? This is the type of stuff that the police did back in the late 60's when Z was still doing his thing. I dont know about anybody else, but my goal is to see this case solved. If everybody felt this way, they would want to share ideas and info. Whatever, I guess I just have to consider the source in this situation, and then it doesnt surprise me. We share ideas and info, and we dont even charge you $$$, LOL. If anyone here sees anything they want to share with other forums, please do, we want to get the truth out there, and maybe one day, see the case solved.
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PostSubject: Re: "BLEEDING KNIFE OF ZODIAC" Letter   Sat Sep 04, 2010 11:24 am

Morf, that post was made quite a couple months ago, and I couldn't agree with you more. If anything, information needs to be shared MORE! Why should it matter where it comes from? I'd think if you really cared about this mystery being solved as opposed to WHO solves it, you'd be all about information sharing. It's sad and quite telling. But should anything less be expected when the source of this is the only one who is (admittedly) paying his bills with the donations of his members? He's the only one doing that (and actually, he's the only one who actively solicits donations period). None of the "rival" sites try to make money off this case.
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PostSubject: Re: "BLEEDING KNIFE OF ZODIAC" Letter   Sat Sep 04, 2010 11:36 am

I got a chuckle myself...........out of this part.
"I'd hate to have to ban someone for violating this rule, but I will."
I can just hear him saying...............dont make me do it!!!
That is lame.............its his website............if he really hates to do something my guess is he wont do it.
Jus keep up the good work Morf and lett the haters hate.............thats what they do best.
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