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 "BLEEDING KNIFE OF ZODIAC" Letter

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morf13
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PostSubject: "BLEEDING KNIFE OF ZODIAC" Letter   Tue Aug 31, 2010 12:21 pm

Here it is finally, THE BLEEDING KNIFE OF ZODIAC letter possibly from Z ( actually more like a drawing)


The FBI did not give me any other facts, dates, or details regarding this letter. Opinions???


Last edited by morf13 on Sat Apr 06, 2013 6:52 am; edited 2 times in total
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PostSubject: Re: "BLEEDING KNIFE OF ZODIAC" Letter   Tue Aug 31, 2010 12:59 pm

For me, the above letter and drawing are similar to this:



However, whether it is a match, I do not know...
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PostSubject: Re: "BLEEDING KNIFE OF ZODIAC" Letter   Tue Aug 31, 2010 1:31 pm

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PostSubject: Re: "BLEEDING KNIFE OF ZODIAC" Letter   Tue Aug 31, 2010 1:43 pm

AK Wilks wrote:

The word KNIFE in both looks similar. In my opinion, the K on the car door is more like Z's real, undisguised handwriting, and the bleeding knife may be his after he disguised it.


Last edited by morf13 on Wed Mar 27, 2013 11:12 pm; edited 1 time in total
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PostSubject: Re: "BLEEDING KNIFE OF ZODIAC" Letter   Tue Aug 31, 2010 3:40 pm


Does anyone know:

When was this letter sent? and to whom? and were was it poststamped?

And was that the only thing sent? or was there like a real letter as well?
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PostSubject: Re: "BLEEDING KNIFE OF ZODIAC" Letter   Tue Aug 31, 2010 3:47 pm

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PostSubject: Re: "BLEEDING KNIFE OF ZODIAC" Letter   Tue Aug 31, 2010 3:48 pm

Morf -

I take it they did not send you a copy of the envelope?

I did include the envelope in my request so if I get it I will post it.
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PostSubject: Re: "BLEEDING KNIFE OF ZODIAC" Letter   Tue Aug 31, 2010 3:50 pm

Theforeigner wrote:

Does anyone know:

When was this letter sent? and to whom? and were was it poststamped?

And was that the only thing sent? or was there like a real letter as well?

Ok I´ll answer myself Smile


http://zodiackillertruth.com/bknife.htm


Bleeding Knife

Below is a transcription of a letter written by the Zodiac killer. Grammatical and spelling errors are included as written.

Date: Postmarked December 16, 1969

Comments: Sent to San Francisco Examiner. Postmarked Fairfield, CA.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

A copy or transcription of this letter in its entirety is unavailable to the public. Here is what we do know about this missive:

The letter had two pages. The first page began:

"This is the Zodiac speaking I just want to tell you this state is in trouble"
The letter contained the following phrases (spelling):

for the goverment
and

don't foreget
The second page contained a drawing of a knife and the words:

"The Bleeding Knife of Zodiac"
Investigators from the F.B.I. concluded in a memo that this letter "may contain some distortion" and was "not written as freely" as other "threatening letters." The memo goes on to say that characteristics indicate this letter "may have been prepared by writer other threatening letters this matter."
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PostSubject: Re: "BLEEDING KNIFE OF ZODIAC" Letter   Tue Aug 31, 2010 3:55 pm

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PostSubject: Re: "BLEEDING KNIFE OF ZODIAC" Letter   Tue Aug 31, 2010 3:58 pm

AK Wilks wrote:
Morf -

I take it they did not send you a copy of the envelope?

I did include the envelope in my request so if I get it I will post it.

Sorry, forgot to post this as i was pretty excited.
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AK Wilks
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PostSubject: Re: "BLEEDING KNIFE OF ZODIAC" Letter   Tue Aug 31, 2010 4:06 pm

Interesting!

There may have been a mix up somewhere. The FBI reports that the "state is in trouble" page one and "bleeding knife" page two were postmarked 12/16/69 FAIRFIELD CA.

This Sacramento Bee paste up is reported as for something else.

That is reported as Q 39, which was sent with the CANCER card!

Q 36 is the envelope for this "state" + "bleeding" letter! I did request that, hopefully I will get it.

The 1981 possible Zodiac letter in the Atlanta Child Murders would also use a newspaper card like this to send a message in.


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PostSubject: Re: "BLEEDING KNIFE OF ZODIAC" Letter   Tue Aug 31, 2010 4:54 pm

morf13 wrote:
AK Wilks wrote:
Morf -

I take it they did not send you a copy of the envelope?

I did include the envelope in my request so if I get it I will post it.

Sorry, forgot to post this as i was pretty excited.

That envelope is from the past-up Dec 10th letter, look at the poststamp, and it is sent from Sacramento.
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PostSubject: Re: "BLEEDING KNIFE OF ZODIAC" Letter   Tue Aug 31, 2010 7:07 pm

That was the business envelope 12/10/69 Dave Peterson got from a Sac detective.as pictured in my book.It contained the torn page from the astrology magazine.
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PostSubject: Re: "BLEEDING KNIFE OF ZODIAC" Letter   Tue Aug 31, 2010 7:38 pm

Some of the letters and words like THE match up more closely with '67 Notes.I hope some will do some side by sides with both productions.
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PostSubject: Re: "BLEEDING KNIFE OF ZODIAC" Letter   Tue Aug 31, 2010 8:01 pm

morf13 wrote:
AK Wilks wrote:

The word KNIFE in both looks similar. In my opinion, the K on the car door is more like Z's real, undisguised handwriting, and the bleeding knife may be his after he disguised it.

Concerning the Lake Berryess murder:

As far as I know, the police did NOT share the "by knife" writing on the car door, they kept that a secret from the public.
SO if that is the case, and I sure do belive that it is, then I would say that the VERY close match between "by knife" on the car door written Sep 27, 1969 and the word "knife" written in the possible Zodiac letter postmarked Dec 16, 1969, ca 3 months later, indicate that the "Bleeding knife of Zodiac" indeed could be a true Zodiac letter.

I have reseached to try find any newsreports that mention the lake Berryessa murder car door writing; "By knife" and have not found any in 1969.
Actually I have not been able to find ANY mentioning of the "by knife " until nenwsreports in recent years.

Does anyone know when the info that Zodiac wrote "by knife" on the car door sep 27, 1969, was first released to the public?


In this picture to the right, you can see that LE has concealed the writing "by knife".

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PostSubject: Re: "BLEEDING KNIFE OF ZODIAC" Letter   Tue Aug 31, 2010 8:05 pm

Looks more like certain letters and words like "THE"Bleeding knife.in the '67 Notes.

Sandra wrote of their "Hungry Knife."See thezodiacmansonconnection.com under Family Page.Click on Sandra Good's two notes.Click for CM using Z's symbol on his stamp in the Family Page!Actually iy will be seen CM used this symbol several times on some samples we posted.
Some have said he never used this symbol.They don't know CM.He had said on TV ' a man must have a symbol.'Whatever CM knew and taught so did BD his closest friend.

Perhaps Bleeding knife came from some novel or film or whatever.
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PostSubject: Re: "BLEEDING KNIFE OF ZODIAC" Letter   Tue Aug 31, 2010 8:36 pm

Theforeigner wrote:
morf13 wrote:
AK Wilks wrote:

The word KNIFE in both looks similar. In my opinion, the K on the car door is more like Z's real, undisguised handwriting, and the bleeding knife may be his after he disguised it.

Concerning the Lake Berryess murder:

As far as I know, the police did NOT share the "by knife" writing on the car door, they kept that a secret from the public.
SO if that is the case, and I sure do belive that it is, then I would say that the VERY close match between "by knife" on the car door written Sep 27, 1969 and the word "knife" written in the possible Zodiac letter postmarked Dec 16, 1969, ca 3 months later, indicate that the "Bleeding knife of Zodiac" indeed could be a true Zodiac letter.

I have reseached to try find any newsreports that mention the lake Berryessa murder car door writing; "By knife" and have not found any in 1969.
Actually I have not been able to find ANY mentioning of the "by knife " until nenwsreports in recent years.

Does anyone know when the info that Zodiac wrote "by knife" on the car door sep 27, 1969, was first released to the public?


In this picture to the right, you can see that LE has concealed the writing "by knife".



Additional reseach on this matter:


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AK Wilks
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PostSubject: Re: "BLEEDING KNIFE OF ZODIAC" Letter   Tue Aug 31, 2010 8:43 pm

Excellent work TF.

You might want to post this on ZKF.

Good job. I don't know when the "by knife" was released. But it was concealed on that picture.

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PostSubject: Re: "BLEEDING KNIFE OF ZODIAC" Letter   Tue Aug 31, 2010 11:10 pm

While I think it is OUTSTANDING you were able to get this, I just don't see any similarities.

I don't know if someone would need to know Zodiac wrote "by knife" in order to know he used a knife.
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PostSubject: Re: "BLEEDING KNIFE OF ZODIAC" Letter   Tue Aug 31, 2010 11:41 pm

Terrific work in getting these letters, morf. Persistence sometimes pays off.

My first thought on these letters is that the handwriting is marginal and there seems to be a certain hard-to-define immaturity in these letters that is missing from any confirmed Zodiac communications. Were BOTH of these letters postmarked from Fairfield, CA? If so, I think it is likely they can be attributed to the same writer as the other Fairfield letters, which appear to be the work of one dedicated hoaxster, IMHO.

http://zodiackillersite.forummotion.com/unconfirmed-zodiac-letters-mailings-general-discussion-f6/unconfirmed-letters-from-fairfield-ca-question-by-entropy-t118.htm

If anyone can find my original post about the Fairfield letters, it would be much appreciated.

ither way, it's great to have a catalogue of ALL of these unconfirmed letters to compare. Nice work...
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PostSubject: Re: "BLEEDING KNIFE OF ZODIAC" Letter   Tue Aug 31, 2010 11:43 pm

I see some similarities, but how much of it is due to disguised writing? I do think it is important to note that FBI experts didnt label this one way or the other as Z-writing, or a fake. SO I think none of us here are really going to be able to determine it. Still makes for good discussion
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PostSubject: Re: "BLEEDING KNIFE OF ZODIAC" Letter   Tue Aug 31, 2010 11:45 pm

entropy wrote:
Terrific work in getting these letters, morf. Persistence sometimes pays off.

My first thought on these letters is that the handwriting is marginal and there seems to be a certain hard-to-define immaturity in these letters that is missing from any confirmed Zodiac communications. Were BOTH of these letters postmarked from Fairfield, CA? If so, I think it is likely they can be attributed to the same writer as the other Fairfield letters, which appear to be the work of one dedicated hoaxster, IMHO.

http://zodiackillersite.forummotion.com/unconfirmed-zodiac-letters-mailings-general-discussion-f6/unconfirmed-letters-from-fairfield-ca-question-by-entropy-t118.htm

If anyone can find my original post about the Fairfield letters, it would be much appreciated.

ither way, it's great to have a catalogue of ALL of these unconfirmed letters to compare. Nice work...

Great words Entropy! IMMATURITY is a good way to describe the writing, and especially the drawing of the knife, it looks like a 7 year old drew it, but then again, so did the BATES letters.
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PostSubject: Re: "BLEEDING KNIFE OF ZODIAC" Letter   Tue Aug 31, 2010 11:56 pm

I have heard "whispers" that this letter has been declared a fraud,and that Tom V had this material long time ago. I find that hard to believe as I have never seen this anyplace before, anywhere on the net, and I have never heard anybody that claimed to have seen it. Even on some of the other Z forums, there has been talk of this letter, but not of the images.

I challenge anybody that claims to know for sure that this letter was proven to be fake, to present evidence or documentation showing that. I just dont think it is the case. The letter may be a fake, who knows, but for people that claim to have details, please share.
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PostSubject: Re: "BLEEDING KNIFE OF ZODIAC" Letter   Wed Sep 01, 2010 1:09 am

morf13 wrote:
I have heard "whispers" that this letter has been declared a fraud,and that Tom V had this material long time ago. I find that hard to believe as I have never seen this anyplace before, anywhere on the net, and I have never heard anybody that claimed to have seen it. Even on some of the other Z forums, there has been talk of this letter, but not of the images.

I challenge anybody that claims to know for sure that this letter was proven to be fake, to present evidence or documentation showing that. I just dont think it is the case. The letter may be a fake, who knows, but for people that claim to have details, please share.

The 2002 letters that are widely considered fakes are still up at Tom's site so I don't know why these wouldn't be up as well. In any case wouldn't have Mike B. jumped right on this if this letter had already been debunked? Also Chris Y. on zodiackillertruth says "A copy or transcription of this letter in its entirety is unavailable to the public"

I agree that if anyone knows of a reason that we should consider this a proven fake they need to quit "whispering" and speak up!

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PostSubject: Re: "BLEEDING KNIFE OF ZODIAC" Letter   Wed Sep 01, 2010 2:10 am

Entropy, where was your original post about the Fairfield letters posted, was it here, at Tom's current board or one of his archived boards or elsewhere?
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