FAKE or REAL? Zodiac letters April May July 1978, 1986 and 1987

Chief Posts : 4294 Join date : 2010-03-05 Age : 57

The July 1978 letter was TYPED, thus it making it impossible to confirm as Zodiac, as there is no handwriting.

1978 was a strange year for the Zodiac case. It started with the April 1978 letter, first confirmed as a real Zodiac letter, then revealed to have some tracing, then most experts said it was probably fake, but Morrill still said it was real, then the controversy over whether Inspector Toschi wrote it, which was never proven and I personally doubt very much. Meaning I think it is probably fake, but I doubt Toschi did it.

FAKE or REAL? Zodiac letters April May July 1978, 1986 and 1987 Zodiac48

FAKE or REAL? Zodiac letters April May July 1978, 1986 and 1987 Zodiac48

Real or fake, did the coverage of the April 1978 letter draw Zodiac out of hiding, and cause him to write some real letters? Or did it just encourage hoaxers to have a field day?

We then have the May 1978 Zodiac letter sent to an LA TV station, that has a death list including "Chief Piggy Darrell Gates" and the "Judas" of the Manson family, Susan Atkins. This May 1978 also mentions a movie being made about the Zodiac and what actor will play him, similar to the April 1978 letter.

FAKE or REAL? Zodiac letters April May July 1978, 1986 and 1987 Zodiac49

FAKE or REAL? Zodiac letters April May July 1978, 1986 and 1987 Zodiac49

FAKE or REAL? Zodiac letters April May July 1978, 1986 and 1987 Zodiac50

Then we have this July 1978 letter, transcipt as follows:
Date: July 19, 1978
Mailed From: Los Angeles, CA
Sent To: San Francisco Chronicle

Typewritten letter:

I am the ZODIAC and I am in control of all things. I am going to tell you a secret. I like friction tape. I like to have it around in case I need to truss someone up in a hurry....I have my real name on a small metallic tape. You see, while you have it in your possession, I want you to know it belongs to me and you think I may have left it accidentally. I am athletic. It could be swim fins, or a piece of scuba gear. But maybe you play chess with me. I have several cheap sets in closets all over. I have my name on the bottom of the lid with the scotch tape....My tape is waiting for me all over California. Do you know me? I am the ZODIAC and I am in control.

Chris Yarbough of www.zodiackillertruth.com raises some interesting questions about this letter, with some comments from me in brackets:

Is this genuine Zodiac correspondence? What is the author trying to say, besides his boast that he is "in control."

Were any murders committed in California where someone was bound with friction tape? What about the metallic tape? Is this an I.D. tape? A measuring tape? [Possible Zodiac victim Nancy Bennallack was found dead with masking tape near her body. Her killer may have tied or blindfolded her with tape, and left a piece behind. From 1976 to 1986, the EAR/ONS tied up his male and female victims, but usually used shoe laces or rope.]

Swim fins. Scuba gear. Arthur Leigh Allen used these items. But, was he the Zodiac, as Graysmith suggests? Was it Allen just trying to get his kicks claiming to be the killer? [Or someone, police detective or reporter, trying to throw suspicion on Allen?]

"But maybe you play chess with me." Was the Zodiac named Knight, King, or Bishop? Castle or Rook?[Or Bobby Fischer, the name of the eccentric champ? Or was the writer just saying he was a chess player?]

Friction tape. Metal tape. Scotch tape. The author is trying to say something with these references. What is he trying to say? [What are the names of popular brands of tape?]

Chief Posts : 4294 Join date : 2010-03-05 Age : 57

This is the one unconfirmed Z letter that has never been talked about much. I first heard about it through Dennis Kaufman. But apparently the expert at the Cal Justice Dept confirmed it as probably authentic. That expert is said to be Terrence Pascoe, also known as Terry Pascoe. I have since talked to two different people who say Pascoe told them it was a confirmed Zodiac letter. It does look like Z writing, to my unexpert eye. And it lacks a zip code, something Zsearcher says he noticed on all the confirmed Z envelopes up to that point. Yet it never got any publicity. The 1986 date also makes it suspect to some as matching the Graysmith paperback, but he never mentioned it.

The handwriting does appear to match. Doug Oswell, among others, noted the mostly unoriginal content of the text, leading him to think it a probable fake. The majority of posters at the Zodiac Killer Facts message board think it is probably fake. And perhaps they are right, but at least four things hold me back from being 100% sure it was a fake:

1. The Cal Justice expert Terry Pascoe apparently thought it was probably real and is said to have confirmed it as a real Zodiac letter. And it looks like Z writing.

2. It somewhat fits a rough pattern of letters appearing about every four years: Three confirmed Z letters in 1974, three (probably mostly or all fake) Z letters in 1978, several unconfirmed Z letters mentioning the Atlanta child murders in 1981/1982, this 1986 Z letter and the 1990 Eureka Z Xmas card and celebrity cipher card.

3. There is compelling evidence Zodiac suspect Ted Kaczynski was in Northern California the year of the 1990 cards, and it is documented he was in Sacramento around the time of this letter, as he killed a man with a bomb there in December 1985. In this 1986 letter Zodiac mentions having just killed people in Sacramento by a freeway, and Ted Kaczynski had just killed a man via a bomb in Sacramento by a freeway on December 11, 1985. Ted used the same Christmas tree stamp as used on the 1990 envelope, and he also used the same flag stamp as used on this 1986 envelope in two letters in 1985. I go into this in depth in the Kaczynski POI section, so I will not mention this possible angle again here.

4. I can't make out if the postmark is "6 March" or "6 May". If May 6, that is just two days after the murder in Orange County of Janelle Lisa Cruz by the man who was the East Area Rapist who terrorized Sacramento and then became the Original Night Stalker who killed in Southern California.

FAKE or REAL? Zodiac letters April May July 1978, 1986 and 1987 Zodiac53

FAKE or REAL? Zodiac letters April May July 1978, 1986 and 1987 Zodiac53

FAKE or REAL? Zodiac letters April May July 1978, 1986 and 1987 Close_10

FAKE or REAL? Zodiac letters April May July 1978, 1986 and 1987 Zodiac54

I think the April '78 letter was a good fake. The best of 'em. I have honeslty thought that Armistead Maupin was involved with it...another thread. Smile

All the others. Fake. imo.

Chief Posts : 4294 Join date : 2010-03-05 Age : 57

This October 1987 letter is also seldom discussed. The handwriting seems less "Zodiac like" than the 1986 letter, to my unexpert eye. But it has a basic Zodiac look to it. The content seems uninspired, mostly old bits, and the stuff about the horror movie "The Car" may be a nod to past Z references to movies like "Most Dangerous Game", "Exorcist" and "Badlands". It feels fake to me...but some of the writing does seem to match.

Has anybody seen the film "The Car"? Anything Z like or interesting in that film?

What do people think? Anything stand out real or fake about this letter?

FAKE or REAL? Zodiac letters April May July 1978, 1986 and 1987 Zodiac51

FAKE or REAL? Zodiac letters April May July 1978, 1986 and 1987 Zodiac51

Zsearcher noted something interesting (a rare event, but I give credit where credit is due). At:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HA87veEkvfM

About 6:13 in, this letter is shown with the envelope it came in, and it appears to have houses (?) drawn on it.

Can anyone do a screen capture and post that here?

Chief Posts : 4294 Join date : 2010-03-05 Age : 57

I am a little surprized there doesn't seem to be much interest in these letters.

Do most people just regard all of these as fakes?

Maybe we could set up a poll, and have people vote on each one:

April 1978

May 1978

July 1978

1986

1987

1990 Celebrity Cipher

1990 Xmas Secret Pal

Probably Real

Could be Real

Too hard to tell/Don't know/No opinion

Could be Fake

Probably Fake

AK Wilks wrote:: Zsearcher noted something interesting (a rare event, but I give credit where credit is due). At:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HA87veEkvfM

About 6:13 in, this letter is shown with the envelope it came in, and it appears to have houses (?) drawn on it.

Can anyone do a screen capture and post that here?

Here you go...it's as clear as I could get it.

FAKE or REAL? Zodiac letters April May July 1978, 1986 and 1987 Forak

tahoe27 wrote:

AK Wilks wrote:: Zsearcher noted something interesting (a rare event, but I give credit where credit is due). At:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HA87veEkvfM

About 6:13 in, this letter is shown with the envelope it came in, and it appears to have houses (?) drawn on it.

Can anyone do a screen capture and post that here?

Here you go...it's as clear as I could get it.

FAKE or REAL? Zodiac letters April May July 1978, 1986 and 1987 Forak

Cant see it too clear

Chief Posts : 4294 Join date : 2010-03-05 Age : 57

Thanks.

Is that a drawing of a house, or a stamp, or a sticker?

What does it say?

Voly?

Woly?

Maybe I will do an FOIA request for this to VPD.

If you tilt your computer screen away from you, you can see it a little better.

Someone send this to Dr. D! He will have a field day! Real cartoons!

Chief Posts : 4294 Join date : 2010-03-05 Age : 57

With color and tint adjustments I think I got it slightly clearer.

FAKE or REAL? Zodiac letters April May July 1978, 1986 and 1987 The_ca10

It reminds me of a city street.

Chief Posts : 4294 Join date : 2010-03-05 Age : 57

Last try by me:

FAKE or REAL? Zodiac letters April May July 1978, 1986 and 1987 1987_z10

Guest

Looks to me like 2 x 1985 22cent stamps (and the left one being cancelled).
stamp ref: http://www.usapostagestamps.com/1985/Flag_over_Capitol.htm

FAKE or REAL? Zodiac letters April May July 1978, 1986 and 1987 Flag_o10

I've roughly super-imposed them here...

FAKE or REAL? Zodiac letters April May July 1978, 1986 and 1987 1987_210

Chief Posts : 4294 Join date : 2010-03-05 Age : 57

WOW!

Good work. I think you may be right.

THAT IS PART OF THE SAME 1985 ISSUE AS THE SMALLER US FLAG OVER CAPITOL STAMP ON THE 1986 ZODIAC LETTER AND USED TWICE BY TK IN 1985.

http://arago.si.edu/index.asp?con=1&cmd=1&mode=2&tid=2038769

http://arago.si.edu/index.asp?con=1&cmd=1&mode=2&tid=2038768

These were part of a larger ongoing series of stamps of US flag over monuments, which includes the flag over Capitol (regular and wide, both issued March 1985, regular used by Zodiac in 1986 and TK in 1985, wide used by Zodiac in 1987) and flag over Yosemite stamp issued May 1988 (used by Judge Vance bomber December 1989 and Bari bomber April 1990).

FAKE or REAL? Zodiac letters April May July 1978, 1986 and 1987 Us_fla11

FAKE or REAL? Zodiac letters April May July 1978, 1986 and 1987 Us_fla11

So the official story is four people known to make bomb threats - Zodiac, Unabomber, Judge Vance bomber and Judi Bari bomber - all just happened to buy the same stamp or set of stamps, out of the 50 or so stamps that you can use at any time? Did they have a convention and all decide to be patriotic together? Or is this one person, who is a cheap bastard?

FAKE or REAL? Zodiac letters April May July 1978, 1986 and 1987 Zodiac53

Rufus T Firefly wrote:: Looks to me like 2 x 1985 22cent stamps (and the left one being cancelled).
stamp ref: http://www.usapostagestamps.com/1985/Flag_over_Capitol.htm

I've roughly super-imposed them here...

Looks like Rufus is right again. Good eye! I couldn't see if until you pointed it out and sure enough the stamp is there.

Great job Rufus Smile

Isen´t 44 cent on a letter, in 1987, more than necessary? And if it was, it was a Zodiac trait.

Chief Posts : 4294 Join date : 2010-03-05 Age : 57

Yes, double postage, a classic Z trait.

Since the 1986 Zodiac letter was never released to the public, absent a remarkable coincidence, it seems likely both the 1986 and 1987 Zodiac letters were written by the same person.

It could be both were done by the same hoaxer.

But since the 1986 letter was deemed authentic by Cal DOJ expert Terry Pascoe, it prompts me to take another look at this 1987 letter.

Has anybody seen the movie "The Car"?

Somebody has to watch that movie this weekend and give us a report about any Z clues in the movie!

Maybe Sandy or Ricardo or Zam can check with the Vallejo Times Herald (?) and see if they can get a copy of this letter and envelope.

AK Wilks wrote:: Yes, double postage, a classic Z trait.

Since the 1986 Zodiac letter was never released to the public, absent a remarkable coincidence, it seems likely both the 1986 and 1987 Zodiac letters were written by the same person.

It could be both were done by the same hoaxer.

But since the 1986 letter was deemed authentic by Cal DOJ expert Terry Pascoe, it prompts me to take another look at this 1987 letter.

Has anybody seen the movie "The Car"?

Somebody has to watch that movie this weekend and give us a report about any Z clues in the movie!

Maybe Sandy or Ricardo or Zam can check with the Vallejo Times Herald (?) and see if they can get a copy of this letter and envelope.

Concerning the movie "THE CAR":

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Car

Quote:

"The evil car in the film was a customized 1971 Lincoln Continental Mark III "

I found this Lincoln Continental Mark III symbol interesting:

FAKE or REAL? Zodiac letters April May July 1978, 1986 and 1987 P01_jpg

FAKE or REAL? Zodiac letters April May July 1978, 1986 and 1987 P01_jpg

Chief Posts : 4294 Join date : 2010-03-05 Age : 57

AHA!!!

Hurray for Denmark?!?!

Denmark to the rescue!

Chief Posts : 4294 Join date : 2010-03-05 Age : 57

FAKE or REAL? Zodiac letters April May July 1978, 1986 and 1987 The_ca11

A phantom...??? Suspect

A RED PHANTOM?

OR A FREEWAY PHANTOM???

AK Wilks wrote:: AHA!!!

Hurray for Denmark?!?!

Denmark to the rescue!

FAKE or REAL? Zodiac letters April May July 1978, 1986 and 1987 Denmark-flag-waving-smile-animated

Chief Posts : 4294 Join date : 2010-03-05 Age : 57

Well you didn't win the world cup of soccer, you might win the world cup of Z slueths!

Also credit to Rufus T Firefly!

Chief Posts : 4294 Join date : 2010-03-05 Age : 57

The critics said it was a turkey and it looks like a rip off of Stephen Kings CHRISTINE. Or I guess King borrowed the idea from this flick. And Tarantino also in Death Proof.

I am going to have to find a copy and watch it, just to see if it has any Z clues.

Might also be an OK trashy horror pic, which I like sometimes. Good pizza, popcorn and beer movie.

Trailer here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PoAD3kUmN9s

AK Wilks wrote:: The critics said it was a turkey and it looks like a rip off of Stephen Kings CHRISTINE. Or I guess King borrowed the idea from this flick. And Tarantino also in Death Proof.

I am going to have to find a copy and watch it, just to see if it has any Z clues.

Might also be an OK trashy horror pic, which I like sometimes. Good pizza, popcorn and beer movie.

Trailer here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PoAD3kUmN9s

The Car is a great 70's horror flick starring James Brolin...one of my faves (I am a big horror movie fan). I can pretty much tell you, just from memory, no obvious Z references.

SPOILER ALERT...................................

In short, a demon/phantom car appears out of nowhere, and terrorizes a small town. It takes place in the desert, New Mexico, Nevada, some place like that. It randomly kills towns people, as the town sheriff and deputies try to find answers and stop the car. In the end, the car turns out to have no driver...its driven by an unseen force, and is pur evil.
There are no anonymous letters or calls, no people stalked, no mysterious killings...none of that. Just a mix of scares and thrills, and a really cool car by the way(forget the make/model)

Chief Posts : 4294 Join date : 2010-03-05 Age : 57

Theforeigner wrote:

AK Wilks wrote:: Yes, double postage, a classic Z trait.

Since the 1986 Zodiac letter was never released to the public, absent a remarkable coincidence, it seems likely both the 1986 and 1987 Zodiac letters were written by the same person.

It could be both were done by the same hoaxer.

But since the 1986 letter was deemed authentic by Cal DOJ expert Terry Pascoe, it prompts me to take another look at this 1987 letter.

Has anybody seen the movie "The Car"?

Somebody has to watch that movie this weekend and give us a report about any Z clues in the movie!

Maybe Sandy or Ricardo or Zam can check with the Vallejo Times Herald (?) and see if they can get a copy of this letter and envelope.

Concerning the movie "THE CAR":

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Car

Quote:

"The evil car in the film was a customized 1971 Lincoln Continental Mark III "

I found this Lincoln Continental Mark III symbol interesting:

FAKE or REAL? Zodiac letters April May July 1978, 1986 and 1987 P01_jpg

It took a foreigner to find the CAR!

In the move Smoking Aces they show this car with the circle-cross symbols on the hood.....filmed in the "general area' of where Larry Kane lived in Lake Tahoe. Wink

» SF Chronicle Aug 3, 1978 April 1978 Letter Fake
» "IN THE WOODS DIES APRIL" - Possible Zodiac Card July 13, 1971
» "Old Tom" and his fake Z letters
» Bleeding Knife Poll Question...Real or Fake?
» JULY 19, 1978 Letter - I Am In Control of All Things