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 FAKE or REAL? Zodiac letters April May July 1978, 1986 and 1987

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sandy betts
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PostSubject: Re: FAKE or REAL? Zodiac letters April May July 1978, 1986 and 1987   Mon Aug 27, 2012 1:51 am

I wonder where the reporter got his information from ? Zodiac named himself in 1968, as far as I know it was Aug. 69 ?
Then he writes that the first letter was to VTH in 68 , I guess he thinks he confessed to the Dec 20th murders as Zodiac in 68 ?
He also states that David Toschi wrote a fake Zodiac letter, not true, was this reporter on crack ????
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sandy betts
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PostSubject: Re: FAKE or REAL? Zodiac letters April May July 1978, 1986 and 1987   Mon Aug 27, 2012 1:58 am

Zamantha , you should post some of those other letters we saw, I Liked the one on Robt Tarbox, it had more information about his talk with the man claiming to be Zodiac.
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PostSubject: Re: FAKE or REAL? Zodiac letters April May July 1978, 1986 and 1987   Mon Aug 27, 2012 2:27 am

sandy betts wrote:
Zamantha , you should post some of those other letters we saw, I Liked the one on Robt Tarbox, it had more information about his talk with the man claiming to be Zodiac.

Yes! If you have more information about this, please post it. I still think this is an interesting angle on the case.
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PostSubject: Re: FAKE or REAL? Zodiac letters April May July 1978, 1986 and 1987   Mon Aug 27, 2012 11:35 am

I believe strongly those are both fakes.

Something that bugs me:

So many people use "an" for "and". I see it all the time, but never saw it with Zodiac. This guy does it twice. Not to mention this writer is obviously using Zodiac's lingo over and over...sounds kind of lame.


SPELLING LESSON: It's "and" if you are combining something. "An" replaces "A". Wink study Sorry to be annoying...back to Zodiac catching. Laughing

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sandy betts
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PostSubject: Fake or not ?   Mon Aug 27, 2012 1:39 pm

Everyone has a right to their opinion, and I respect yours. But I am thinking these could very well be the Zodiac's printing and words. He has used the word "an" a few times , just to name two , the 6-26-70 letter and the Exorcist letter 1-29-74.

He could change his printing style over the yrs as I have and others have. I can't discount any Zodiac correspondence, until it has been proven not to be, by more than one so called expert. The Eureka card being one of the ones I truly feel was from the Z.

I know there are a lot of people who would like to believe that the Zodiac died a long time ago, so any new letters have to be fakes. But I have my own reasons for believing that he is very much alive and feeling well enough to still be killing. Announcing his dirty deeds would bring him too much attention , and he could be caught with today's technology, is what I think.
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PostSubject: Re: FAKE or REAL? Zodiac letters April May July 1978, 1986 and 1987   Mon Aug 27, 2012 1:55 pm

Yes, Z used the word "an". However, I think Tahoe was saying that Z never used the word "an" in PLACE of the word "and".
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tahoe27
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PostSubject: Re: FAKE or REAL? Zodiac letters April May July 1978, 1986 and 1987   Mon Aug 27, 2012 3:33 pm

thebigZ wrote:
Yes, Z used the word "an". However, I think Tahoe was saying that Z never used the word "an" in PLACE of the word "and".

Yep.

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Qz1
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PostSubject: Letters   Mon Aug 27, 2012 6:16 pm

Nope. None of these.

That is, unless Z suffered some sort of chemical lobotomy post '74. I think Z was a little smarter with a more ascerbic wit.
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sandy betts
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PostSubject: Re: FAKE or REAL? Zodiac letters April May July 1978, 1986 and 1987   Mon Aug 27, 2012 7:07 pm

Depending on his moods ,is how he wrote, his letters proved that. I will agree to disagree.
Even the experts on his writings, didn't agree all of the time. They would change their minds after some debating. I also believe that the 74 and 78 letters are real. We can't say that he "never" wrote the word "and" or an, in any of his letters because he has, not often, but has is what I am saying.

There is still alot we don't know about the Zodiac, and may never know until he is caught , and then we still may not.
He was never known to rape anyone , but can we be so sure that he never did ? No
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AK Wilks
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PostSubject: Re: FAKE or REAL? Zodiac letters April May July 1978, 1986 and 1987   Mon Aug 27, 2012 7:28 pm

Cal DOJ EXPERT Terry Pascoe said the 86 letter was real. Not only is there the missing D noted there is also a missing E in mystery and an extra T. I discuss this in a poi thread. Also the letter was mailed two days after the ONS killed a woman in Orange County.

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PostSubject: Re: FAKE or REAL? Zodiac letters April May July 1978, 1986 and 1987   Mon Aug 27, 2012 7:39 pm

It's weird because that 78 letter does have a lot of the little things that I look for in a Zodiac letter but there's a fair bit that I've never seen. I don't think it's real and I thought that a long time ago. Now I would need to do a comparison but I would say something. In his construction of characters Zodiac was pretty consistent, even in his variations.

I don't see that here. The angles of construction of the Y changes and the big one in this letter is the lowercase u's. Zodiac's were for the most part consistent across many letters over many years having quite a unique, tumbling forward angle. There isn't any of that here in fact one of the u's near the bottom is starting to go completely the other way and for me, on the surface at least, that's a big NO-NO.

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PostSubject: Re: FAKE or REAL? Zodiac letters April May July 1978, 1986 and 1987   Mon Aug 27, 2012 8:26 pm

sandy betts wrote:
...Even the experts on his writings, didn't agree all of the time. They would change their minds after some debating...

That's sort of my problem with it all. Smile

I don't mean to make light of your opinion Sandy. Many would agree with you.

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PostSubject: Re: FAKE or REAL? Zodiac letters April May July 1978, 1986 and 1987   Tue Aug 28, 2012 12:09 pm

My belief is that there was more than one personality inhabiting Zodiac's body.
Depends who was "present" when the letters were written. Look at the letters and
you will see some look alike and others look alike, but not exactly the same. IMO
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PostSubject: Re: FAKE or REAL? Zodiac letters April May July 1978, 1986 and 1987   Tue Aug 28, 2012 2:23 pm

For those interested I would advise read this thread starting at page one. There is more to this 1986 letter than first meets the eye. But I realize I am in a minority on this one. The Graysmith book in 1986 may have caused the real Zodiac to write a letter, but just as likely it could stir up hoax letters as well.

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PostSubject: Re: FAKE or REAL? Zodiac letters April May July 1978, 1986 and 1987   Wed Aug 29, 2012 9:51 am

AK Wilks wrote:
This is the one unconfirmed Z letter that has never been talked about much. I first heard about it through Dennis Kaufman. But apparently the expert at the Cal Justice Dept confirmed it as probably authentic. That expert is said to be Terrence Pascoe, also known as Terry Pascoe. I have since talked to two different people who say Pascoe told them it was a confirmed Zodiac letter. It does look like Z writing, to my unexpert eye. And it lacks a zip code, something Zsearcher says he noticed on all the confirmed Z envelopes up to that point. Yet it never got any publicity. The 1986 date also makes it suspect to some as matching the Graysmith paperback, but he never mentioned it.

The handwriting does appear to match. Doug Oswell, among others, noted the mostly unoriginal content of the text, leading him to think it a probable fake. The majority of posters at the Zodiac Killer Facts message board think it is probably fake. And perhaps they are right, but at least four things hold me back from being 100% sure it was a fake:

1. The Cal Justice expert Terry Pascoe apparently thought it was probably real and is said to have confirmed it as a real Zodiac letter. And it looks like Z writing.

2. It somewhat fits a rough pattern of letters appearing about every four years: Three confirmed Z letters in 1974, three (probably mostly or all fake) Z letters in 1978, several unconfirmed Z letters mentioning the Atlanta child murders in 1981/1982, this 1986 Z letter and the 1990 Eureka Z Xmas card and celebrity cipher card.

3. There is compelling evidence Zodiac suspect Ted Kaczynski was in Northern California the year of the 1990 cards, and it is documented he was in Sacramento around the time of this letter, as he killed a man with a bomb there in December 1985. In this 1986 letter Zodiac mentions having just killed people in Sacramento by a freeway, and Ted Kaczynski had just killed a man via a bomb in Sacramento by a freeway on December 11, 1985. Ted used the same Christmas tree stamp as used on the 1990 envelope, and he also used the same flag stamp as used on this 1986 envelope in two letters in 1985. I go into this in depth in the Kaczynski POI section, so I will not mention this possible angle again here.

4. I can't make out if the postmark is "6 March" or "6 May". If May 6, that is just two days after the murder in Orange County of Janelle Lisa Cruz by the man who was the East Area Rapist who terrorized Sacramento and then became the Original Night Stalker who killed in Southern California.








ZZZZ letter writer says CA and NA....CA is ok for Calif - but what is NA? Nevada is NV, Nebraska is NE etc...as far as I know ther is no state with NA, is there? Nassau? Nevada?

QT
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PostSubject: Re: FAKE or REAL? Zodiac letters April May July 1978, 1986 and 1987   Wed Aug 29, 2012 11:49 am

Could it be Va for Virginia? Not likely. Na for North America? Maybe...

Could it be Nv? For Nevada? Or maybe Na for Nevada, perhaps the writer thought that was the right abbreviation?

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PostSubject: Re: FAKE or REAL? Zodiac letters April May July 1978, 1986 and 1987   Wed Sep 05, 2012 2:24 pm

This is from the new FBI docs from Morf, posted by Trav. Don't know if this is never before seen but I don't think I ever saw it. It is the envelope for the probably FAKE Zodiac letter of 1978. Where have I seen that bell stamp before? I don't know the answer, I am asking!


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PostSubject: Re: FAKE or REAL? Zodiac letters April May July 1978, 1986 and 1987   Wed Sep 05, 2012 2:32 pm

The letter but not the envelope has been up at Angelfire for some time. It's a better resolution of the letter, too. Click on Hoax One.

http://www.angelfire.com/fl5/zodiac_law/Hoax.html
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PostSubject: Re: FAKE or REAL? Zodiac letters April May July 1978, 1986 and 1987   Wed Sep 05, 2012 2:38 pm

Seagull wrote:
The letter but not the envelope has been up at Angelfire for some time. It's a better resolution of the letter, too. Click on Hoax One.

http://www.angelfire.com/fl5/zodiac_law/Hoax.html

I think the letter looks fake but the envelope looks a bit real to me

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PostSubject: Re: FAKE or REAL? Zodiac letters April May July 1978, 1986 and 1987   Thu Sep 06, 2012 12:31 am

To my knowledge the ENVELOPE has never before been released or seen.

I still think this is a probable fake, as determined by most of the experts who examined it.

But I think I have seen this bell stamp somewhere else in the case...

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PostSubject: Re: FAKE or REAL? Zodiac letters April May July 1978, 1986 and 1987   Thu Sep 06, 2012 6:53 am

I checked the other envelopes and couldn't see it so it might be on one of the other fakes maybe? The bell stamp that is.

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PostSubject: Re: FAKE or REAL? Zodiac letters April May July 1978, 1986 and 1987   Wed Sep 12, 2012 8:53 am

All earlier Zodiac letters were 7½ x 10" in a legal (that's the size!) envelope, and the '78 wasn't, so I haven't much bothered with it.
Can't remember where I read that, but it appears to be true.
I don't think anything after '74 is real - but I do think the "Badlands" letter is - and that it's really imortant. JMO!
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PostSubject: From Page one   Fri Oct 05, 2012 10:13 pm

from page one:
I am the ZODIAC and I am in control of all things. I am going to tell you a secret. I like friction tape. I like to have it around in case I need to truss someone up in a hurry....I have my real name on a small metallic tape. You see, while you have it in your possession, I want you to know it belongs to me and you think I may have left it accidentally. I am athletic. It could be swim fins, or a piece of scuba gear. But maybe you play chess with me. I have several cheap sets in closets all over. I have my name on the bottom of the lid with the scotch tape....My tape is waiting for me all over California. Do you know me? I am the ZODIAC and I am in control.

I wonder, since, of course I have a lead, if this is not a WET SUIT and the tape is in the name tag area. The brand: Oneills . Does anyone know of this wet suit? Not that it exists, just a hunch on some clues I am chasing. Anyone know of a wet suit in LE possesion?

As far as the written letter. Look close with a magnifying glass, there is two 'E's that match the bate letter and my POI's hand writing. Mind you, my POI has maybe 10 writing styles I have seen so far, as well, Z has just as many.
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PostSubject: Medical tape ?   Sat Oct 06, 2012 2:50 am

It appears medical tape was used in the Keddie Murders....hmmm....
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PostSubject: I am interested   Sat Oct 06, 2012 3:45 am

AK Wilks wrote:
I am a little surprized there doesn't seem to be much interest in these letters.

Do most people just regard all of these as fakes?

Maybe we could set up a poll, and have people vote on each one:

April 1978

May 1978

July 1978

1986

1987

1990 Celebrity Cipher

1990 Xmas Secret Pal

Probably Real

Could be Real

Too hard to tell/Don't know/No opinion

Could be Fake

Probably Fake


I cant loa the pic I wanted to load. Sorry.
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