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 Morf13's POI, "JIMMY"

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PostSubject: Re: Morf13's POI, "JIMMY"   Wed Apr 20, 2011 2:04 pm

Found out today that the JAMES OWEN on LHR the night of the murders, was NOT the same James Owen that graduated from Vallejo HS in 1950....that was a shock to me and a bit confusing, but I am glad I know the truth.
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PostSubject: Re: Morf13's POI, "JIMMY"   Wed Apr 20, 2011 2:16 pm

Weird because there was James Owen who went to school with Zode....
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PostSubject: Re: Morf13's POI, "JIMMY"   Wed Apr 20, 2011 2:22 pm

tahoe27 wrote:
Weird because there was James Owen who went to school with Zode....

I guess its a somewhat common name. That is partially my fault I guess too, because when I first found James Owen in the Vallejo HS yearbook, I always assumed it was the same one that was on LHR. One thing that should have been a clue was that the Owen that was on LHR would have been about 20 years old if he graduated in Vallejo HS class of 1950, and thats a little old.
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PostSubject: Re: Morf13's POI, "JIMMY"   Mon May 09, 2011 5:24 pm

Got word back today and it seems that old Jimmy's military file was destroyed in the St Louis military records fire in the early 70's. This was bad news for me on this front. I had hoped that his file would reveal some things of interest. This also means that any prints on file there were lost too. He told me that he did not ever give prints to police investigating the Z case. So hopefully they pulled them on their own prior to the fire. If they didnt, it is very likely that this man's prints were NEVER compared to Zodiac's.
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PostSubject: Re: Morf13's POI, "JIMMY"   Tue Jun 07, 2011 10:35 pm



Never noticed it until today, but "Jimmy's" first 3 of his SS# are 369 If the next digit is 0, then that would blow my mind. Wont be able to find out unless his full ss# is issued in SS death index someday. Of course, could just be a coincidence like so many things in this case.
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PostSubject: Re: Morf13's POI, "JIMMY"   Wed Jun 08, 2011 1:31 pm

morf13 wrote:
...Never noticed it until today, but "Jimmy's" first 3 of his SS# are 369 If the next digit is 0, then that would blow my mind...
His surname begins "O".
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PostSubject: Re: Morf13's POI, "JIMMY"   Wed Jun 08, 2011 1:32 pm

Love these little tid-bits that always pop up!
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PostSubject: Re: Morf13's POI, "JIMMY"   Thu Sep 01, 2011 6:32 pm

Morf, you've outlined Jimmy's candidacy as a suspect in a very convincing manner. I'm quite swayed by your theories, and agree with you that Jimmy not being properly investigated back in the period 1968-1969 might have been a huge blunder.

The really important question, however (one that applies to every existing POI), is what are we going to do about him now? We can keep mulling over him on this forum all we want, but the fact remains that if he is to be ruled in or out, something further must be done.
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PostSubject: Re: Morf13's POI, "JIMMY"   Fri Sep 02, 2011 1:19 am

Nachtsider wrote:
Morf, you've outlined Jimmy's candidacy as a suspect in a very convincing manner. I'm quite swayed by your theories, and agree with you that Jimmy not being properly investigated back in the period 1968-1969 might have been a huge blunder.

The really important question, however (one that applies to every existing POI), is what are we going to do about him now? We can keep mulling over him on this forum all we want, but the fact remains that if he is to be ruled in or out, something further must be done.

Nach, appreciate your thoughts. I really do not know how to move forawrd with it. I have multiple letters he sent me with his prints on them. I have spoken at great length with the CA DOJ,and with NAPA. CA DOJ wants me to hold onto them, and states they are interested but are swamped with fresh cases. Napa has told me that he is one of many 'persons of interest' in the case, and that once they receive funding to do further research on the Berryessa case (thru a grant given to various police agencies in CA), they will look at it again and may request I send them the prints. So they remain in my posession. I may be 100% wrong, but my thinking is, at least give them a quick check. It would take only minutes, and we could rule him out easily. But they seem to think its a hassle or not worth the effort, or they are too wrapped up in fresh cases to bother. I said it before, I think the only way they get involved is when you hold a press conference and announce your Daddy is Zodiac. Its a bit discouraging, and makes me think that the case will likely never be solved.

In the meantime, my suspect is up there in age and not in the best of health. If he passes away, he can still be checked out against Zodiac. If he passes away,I might feel more comfortable going public on a larger scale regarding my suspicions. For now, I will gather whatever I can, and hopefully, keep it all on file until police decide what to do.
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PostSubject: Re: Morf13's POI, "JIMMY"   Tue Apr 17, 2012 6:53 pm

Nachtsider wrote:
Morf, you've outlined Jimmy's candidacy as a suspect in a very convincing manner. I'm quite swayed by your theories, and agree with you that Jimmy not being properly investigated back in the period 1968-1969 might have been a huge blunder.

The really important question, however (one that applies to every existing POI), is what are we going to do about him now? We can keep mulling over him on this forum all we want, but the fact remains that if he is to be ruled in or out, something further must be done.

I have been thinking about this POI alot, and he remains strong in my book due to everything I have outlined so far. But I am wrestling with him as a suspect due to the fact I believe with little doubt that Z was rooted in Riverside,and I cant place 'Jimmy' there. Still,it's hard to ignore some of the glaring problems with his statements to police,and the improper way in which he was ruled out as a possible suspect.

Today,I exchanged messages with another member here about him,and some of the things about him that make him interesting. One thing keeps popping out to me,and I can not seem to reconcile it.
In his 2nd statement to police 3 days after the murder on 12/23/68, Jimmy telles police that when he went by the scene, he saw ZERO PEOPLE & ZERO BODIES,but he says he saw the victim's car,and a 2nd car believed top be Zodiac's parked next to it. In both statements he gave to police,he says that he DID NOT see any people or bodies,and we know that where Betty Lou fell,it was almost in the road,and Owen could not have missed her if she was already shot when he went by. So let's say that for one second, he is telling the truth.Where are the 2 victims,and Z??? Some would say,maybe they were all ducked down in their cars. I dont buy that. All the witnesses that went by saw the 2 teens sitting upright,so why would they suddenly decide to lay down when Jimmy went by? Jimmy states that when he was aproximately 1/4 mile past the scene,he heard a shot. If he was driving conservatively,let's say about 45 mph(nice & casual drive),it would have taken about 18 pr 19 seconds TOPS if my math is right to travel a 1/4 mile. That would mean Z would have had to have sprung out immediately when Jimmy passed them, and rushed around his car to their car and quickly,with no talking or anything,fired his warning shot,all in 18-19 seconds. Is it possible? And if Jimmy was driving 50,or 55 mph,then that 18-19 seconds may be less maybe 15-16 seconds. Again,is it possible? Some might say that Z had already attacked them and made them duck down behind the cars. But the evidence doesnt show that. It shows that Z made them get out thru the pass side and shot Dave as soon as he slid out,and then shot Betty. If Z had them duck down behind the car when Jimmy went by,then he would have had to have made them climb in the car and out again to shoot them as the evidence suggests,all in less than 20 seconds. Its not realistic. Of course, we have to wonder....in his first statement to police standing at the scene of a double shooting 9 hours after the murder,Jimmy fails to mention that he heard any shots. Yet somehow,he suddenly remembers this piece of info in his 2nd statement to police 3 days later. I know witnesses can forget stuff,butnobody will ever make me believe that he would forget to mention hearing a gunshot as he was standing at the scene of a double shooting with chalk outlines on the ground. Also,in one of his statements,Jimmy states the cars are 3 or 4 feet apart,but in his other statement,Jimmy states that they are 10 feet apart. That doesnt seem like a big deal,but 5 or 6 feet difference in his statements might clash with the location of the shell casings on the ground.

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PostSubject: Re: Morf13's POI, "JIMMY"   Tue Apr 17, 2012 7:19 pm

Another troubling item> First sketch,What Jimmy claims he saw when he went by:


2nd sketch,what Stella Borges sees only a few minutes later after Jimmy passes by:


3rd sketch is where the various shell casings were(notice the one thats all by itself 20 feet away):


If we believe Jimmy,and the car driven by Z was parked facing in, then all of the shots & shell casings shouls be very close to Dave's car with all the other shell casings. One possibility is that Z shoots close to Dave's car,ejects out and to the right,bouncing off of his own car and sailing all the way over 20 feet away. Another possibility is that Z backs in to the spot near the kids. When he gets out,he is much further away,since his driver's side door is alot closer to where that stray shell is found. If he does back in,gets out and starts to walk around to the front of his car,and shoots a warning shot from the front of his own car,then the shell ejects alot closer to where it was found. For me,Z backing in makes the most sense...why? Because he could make a fast escape pulling out forward instead of backing out. Plus,even though there were two bodies in his path,he didnt back over either of them,which also makes me think he pulled out straight instead of backing out. Here's the issue,if Z did back in and did his killing,and then pulled out straight,then that makes 'Jimmy' a liar. If he is lying,then why is he lying? Is he Z??? He is the only person mentioned in the reports on LHR that night,verified to be there during the small window when Z struck that had ZERO witnesses with him to verify his statements.Every other person mentioned in the reports before & after the attack had a person with them to verify their statements

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PostSubject: Re: Morf13's POI, "JIMMY"   Tue Apr 17, 2012 10:50 pm

Morf, how did Jimmy come to make a statement? Did he call in voluntarily or what? TIA
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PostSubject: Re: Morf13's POI, "JIMMY"   Tue Apr 17, 2012 11:10 pm

He was on his way home from his graveyard shift at Humble Oil, came to the still active crime scene and either stopped or was stopped by LE (if they were stopping everyone) and volunteered his recount of passing by the night before on his way into work.

So it's possible he was involuntarily stopped, but he volunteered the info.

Morf, did we see a bit of his writing?
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PostSubject: Re: Morf13's POI, "JIMMY"   Wed Apr 18, 2012 2:40 am

bentley wrote:
He was on his way home from his graveyard shift at Humble Oil, came to the still active crime scene and either stopped or was stopped by LE (if they were stopping everyone) and volunteered his recount of passing by the night before on his way into work.

So it's possible he was involuntarily stopped, but he volunteered the info.

Morf, did we see a bit of his writing?

Only Cursive...no printed writing Crying or Very sad

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PostSubject: Re: Morf13's POI, "JIMMY"   Wed Apr 25, 2012 10:43 am

I verified something today that I had long suspected, which is that 'Jimmy' was indeed a HUNTER. One more thing that lines up well with Zodiac.

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PostSubject: Re: Morf13's POI, "JIMMY"   Wed Aug 22, 2012 8:21 pm

Thanks to FOREIGNER for this info:

James Alford Owen

James Alford Owen was born on June 14, 1930 in Kalamazoo, Michigan. He married the love of his life, Verna Larsen on June 10, 1950. During the next 62 years they raised three children; two sons, Kenneth and Timothy, and a daughter, Laura.

Jim entered into the United States Army at 17, at the end of WWII, and became a member of the Air Force when it first separated from the Army Air Corp. and served proudly for 20 years. He retired from the Air Force with many distinguishing honors, not the least, becoming one of the original Chief Master Sergeants after the rank of E-9 was created. The Owen family traveled all over the world during this time. Jim was able to give his children an education of a life time and by this teaching them the appreciation of living in the United States.

Shortly after retiring from his military service he accepted a position at a new oil refinery being built in Benicia, California by Humble Oil, later renamed to Exxon Oil Co. He rapidly was promoted to supervisor, superintendent, safety director and finally Director of Risk Management. Jim took great pride by working with his son, Timothy, at the same refinery.

After retiring for a second time, he took a director’s position for a large construction company in northern California until finally agreeing with his wife that it was time to stop his work career, or so it would seem. Years later he worked for a short period of time off the coast of southern California working back on the oil platforms.

Once Jim was done working outside the home, Verna told him it was time to find a hobby. So he did. He learned and mastered quite well the game of Texas Hold’em. He kept busy down at the little local casino house mastering the game and becoming buddies with a few of the locals. It kept him busy. His other job became being the master grocery shopper for the ever expanding family.

During this time, Jim and Verna, after raising their own children, continued to “raise” countless children and grandchildren, both born into the Owen family and adopted as part of their own.

In the words of his first-born grandchild, Lauren Owen, her favorite memory of her Papa was playing house. “When I would go over to Grandma Verna and Papa’s house for the weekend, Papa and I would go into the garage building and start fixing things with his tools. He would give me tins that he kept nuts and bolts in. I would play house with them. The gas meter was my pretend stove. Papa would always come to check on me and visit. He would pretend to eat my creations. He was always there for me, even as I grew into an adult.”

In the words of another granddaughter, Adrian Murphy, Papa was always so good with the kids. “One of my favorite memories was when my son, Cody, was a little guy and he would hide behind Papa’s chair and tell these jokes that made no sense, but Papa would laugh anyways. He always had candy for the kids by his chair. Dad, Cody, Papa and I would go out to breakfast a lot on dad’s days off always to the poker palace, of course. He would let Cody drink out of the creamers on the table, I would hide them, but he would just give them back. When I would turn around he would tell me “Ahh, just let him be, that’s what they are there for.” He loved all of his grandkids more than life itself and would have done anything for them. He was lucky to have spent a lot of years with them and now will always watch them from above. He held on for much longer than most would have, was always strong and will forever be in our hearts.”

Jim passed quietly at home on Thursday morning, August 16, 2012, after a return of the cancer he had bravely fought and beat eight years prior. Although it is easy to list the accomplishments of a man in terms of work, what he acquired or his skill sets, it is far more difficult to describe the greatness of a man who stood proudly his entire life at 6’3” but towered over most by the greatness of his heart not by his stature.

The stories Jim loved to share were of the goodness of others and the deeds that truly great men accomplished. He was never impressed by fame or wealth, but by the simple acts of kindness and humanity that typically go unnoticed.




.

I knew he had cancer, and was checking forhis obituary every month (I know that sounds bad). I can now openly names JAMES OWEN as my favorite Zodiac POI. I dont want to flat out say he was Zodiac, but he is my favorite suspect. He was at the scene at about the time of the LHR murders, and he had troubling multiple incosistencies in his statements to police. MORE TO COME. I plan on sending an FBI request off for any records they have on him. Again, Not saying he was Zodiac, but at least should be a person of interest, and should have been properly ruled out!

Finally, a face to go with the name, too bad this pic isnt from the 1960's...

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PostSubject: Re: Morf13's POI, "JIMMY"   Wed Aug 22, 2012 8:48 pm

Still looks good though.

Biggish ears, notable chin, small mouth (possibly with definition), short nose compared to length of face, skowl mark between eyebrows most likely had it from early/mid twenties onward as that's when I rem mine from. Even the angle of the ears looks really good. Creepy.


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PostSubject: Re: Morf13's POI, "JIMMY"   Wed Aug 22, 2012 8:56 pm

I noticed the chin being similar, pretty pronounced. I really dont even want to go by a photo taken 40 years after the Z sketch, I have to get my hands on an older 1960s or 70's pic....Also, it mentions that he was 6ft3, andI know how most people feel about suspects tht tall (see fred Manalli). But recently, I think I just posted something that Hartnell reported which was that Zodiac wasnt that much shorter than him by his estimation, so 6ft to 6ft3 for a suspect against Hartnell's 6ft5 frame isnt out of the question in my book

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PostSubject: Re: Morf13's POI, "JIMMY"   Wed Aug 22, 2012 9:26 pm

His face feature still match up well to the sketch even though the age difference in the pic. Waiting to hear more Morf.
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PostSubject: Re: Morf13's POI, "JIMMY"   Wed Aug 22, 2012 9:35 pm

His face seems to narrow but I admit the chin and ears look good! Actually I know you hate this sketch Morf but he looks like the infamous Sonoma sketch which we know is just an artist aging of the sf sketch. But he does look like it.

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PostSubject: Re: Morf13's POI, "JIMMY"   Wed Aug 22, 2012 9:51 pm

Owen certainly wore glasses...


Again, I have to be skeptical and I need to see a photo of Owen from the 60's and 70's....that would be a better comparison to the sketch. As far as him looking too 'skinny'...the guy had cancer, chemo, etc, so anold photo of him is the only solution.

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PostSubject: Re: Morf13's POI, "JIMMY"   Wed Aug 29, 2012 8:53 am

In this police statement, it states that Owen read about the LHR attack in the morning paper:
[img][/img]


But in the interview I did with him, he claimed that somebody told him about the double murder and that's how he first found out about it. Another incinsistency from Owen. The question is, was it due to older age and foggy memories, or something more?

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PostSubject: Re: Morf13's POI, "JIMMY"   Wed Aug 29, 2012 3:52 pm

Blimey. I don't know how that gentlemans ears can possibly be so uncannily like the photofit - it's unreal. Shocked
Yes, it would be interesting to see photographs of him in younger days.
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PostSubject: Re: Morf13's POI, "JIMMY"   Thu Aug 30, 2012 4:19 am

Could be both - he heard it from a co-worker and also saw it in the paper. Maybe the co-worker showed him the paper? Maybe the officer who wrote the report just didn't think it was important to include everything Owen said. If, in fact, he did mention the co-worker.

This part interests me:
During this time, Jim and Verna, after raising their own children, continued to “raise” countless children and grandchildren, both born into the Owen family and adopted as part of their own.

Hard to imagine that Zodiac liked kids so much that he adopted any, legally or otherwise. Would be interesting to see what some of the "adopted" kids would say about Owen.

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PostSubject: Re: Morf13's POI, "JIMMY"   Thu Aug 30, 2012 6:55 am

Jem wrote:
Could be both - he heard it from a co-worker and also saw it in the paper. Maybe the co-worker showed him the paper? Maybe the officer who wrote the report just didn't think it was important to include everything Owen said. If, in fact, he did mention the co-worker.

This part interests me:
During this time, Jim and Verna, after raising their own children, continued to “raise” countless children and grandchildren, both born into the Owen family and adopted as part of their own.

Hard to imagine that Zodiac liked kids so much that he adopted any, legally or otherwise. Would be interesting to see what some of the "adopted" kids would say about Owen.


I certainly agree with you on this point. And I feel somewhat bad even considering this guy as a Zodiac POI, i hope my suspicion of him turns out to be wrong, I dont mind a bruised ego. But the fact is, he IS the last person to see the couple's car before their bodies were found. He is the ONLY person to see the 'mystery car' parked next to the victim's, and as a matter of fact, he was the only witness on the road that night in the reports without a person to verify what he was saying. He DID HAVE multiple inconsistencies in his statements to police. He DID own multiple guns. He DID just move to the area shortly before the murders, he WAS ex-Air Force(wing walkers). He WAS a hunter.So, in my estimation, he should have been a logical person to be a suspect. Police could have & should have ruled him out properly via PRINTS. They tested two different rifles of Owen's,and of course we know they were not the murder weapon since a handgun was used. But when they realized that a handgun was used, they didnt go back and ask for any handguns of Owen's.

As fr as adopting Kids, etc, I could be completely wrong and this man was in the wrong place at the wrong time, but hen again, maybe he had some change for the better, or found God, etc.

Again, my only reason for suspecting him at all was for the many reasons above, and he could have been/should have been ruled out properly- that's my only issue.

Police were suspsicious of him enough that they tested his guns. They asked him to hand over his guns for testing. they used two of his cursive signatures to rule him out as the author of the printed Zodiac letters(a MAJOR mistake & error on their part). According to Owen, they never even finger printed him. They even allowed Owen, to question a potential witness that Owen worked with instead of questioning the witness themselves. When a police agency allows a witness to question another witness, in my opinion, the investigation is fundamentally flawed.

Throw in the fact that Owe's ears & chin/jaw DO look pretty close to the Z sketch, it all still leaves me very interested. I have to admit, I was half expecting to read an article that Owen's attorneys, upon his death, turned over info to police that he was Zodiac, but that didnt happen...maybe because he wasnt Zodiac, or if h was, maybe he had changed and no longer was the same person.

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