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 Peek Through The Pines card 3/22/71

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PostSubject: Peek Through The Pines card 3/22/71   Fri Mar 05, 2010 4:20 pm

Peek Through The Pines card, received by the SanFran Chronicle on 3/22/71

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PostSubject: Re: Peek Through The Pines card 3/22/71   Fri Mar 05, 2010 10:12 pm

Here is the actual ad for the Forest Pines condo units at Incline Village that Zodiac used as the basis for his "Peek through the Pines" card.





Was this a clue that Donna Lass is buried at or near Forest Pines at Incline Village?

Notice anything unusual about the horizontal line in the Zodiac symbol on the Pines card as seen above? I would say the horizontal line is on a noticable INCLINE.
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PostSubject: Ads in the newspaper   Thu Mar 18, 2010 11:25 am



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PostSubject: Re: Peek Through The Pines card 3/22/71   Thu Mar 18, 2010 11:54 am

Good stuff. Had never seen that actual Ad. It also says right on there "Peak thru the pines". By the way, properties starting in the upper $30k range.....I'll take 4 please.. Laughing
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PostSubject: Re: Peek Through The Pines card 3/22/71   Thu Mar 18, 2010 12:14 pm

morf13 wrote:
Good stuff. Had never seen that actual Ad. It also says right on there "Peak thru the pines". By the way, properties starting in the upper $30k range.....I'll take 4 please.. Laughing

Here is a whole newspaper page:

http://img691.imageshack.us/img691/6410/peekthroughthepines2121.jpg
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PostSubject: Re: Peek Through The Pines card 3/22/71   Thu Mar 18, 2010 2:02 pm

Nin--Do you have the full newspaper for the ad in the Chronicle?

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PostSubject: Peek Through The Pines card 3/22/71   Thu Mar 18, 2010 10:13 pm

Nin wrote:
morf13 wrote:
Good stuff. Had never seen that actual Ad. It also says right on there "Peak thru the pines". By the way, properties starting in the upper $30k range.....I'll take 4 please.. Laughing

Here is a whole newspaper page:

http://img691.imageshack.us/img691/6410/peekthroughthepines2121.jpg

Much Thanks Nin, as I have never seen the whole add nor the newspaper. Interesting.
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PostSubject: Re: Peek Through The Pines card 3/22/71   Thu Mar 18, 2010 11:06 pm

I truly believe he used the ad from the Chronicle newspaper. This is the one from the Nevada paper. Seems like there was something interesting in the one with the chronicle, but I can't remember what it is!!

My husband worked at Forest Pines condos doing some construction--when we first moved to Tahoe. You have no idea how it felt walking around those condos. I never felt she was buried there, but you still can't help but think about it. Even though we don't even know he (if Z) even meant Donna!

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PostSubject: Re: Peek Through The Pines card 3/22/71   Fri Mar 19, 2010 9:15 am

tahoe27 wrote:
Nin--Do you have the full newspaper for the ad in the Chronicle?

Unfortunately not.

-Nin
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PostSubject: Re: Peek Through The Pines card 3/22/71   Tue Aug 31, 2010 7:34 pm

You can see he cut out" peek through the pines" from the ad itself.
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PostSubject: Re: Peek Through The Pines card 3/22/71   Sat Nov 27, 2010 7:48 am

I found the following location in Google Earth and believe it is the same as shown in the small map of the advertisement:

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PostSubject: Re: Peek Through The Pines card 3/22/71   Sun Nov 28, 2010 7:39 am

Looks like a pretty good area to hide a body.
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PostSubject: Re: Peek Through The Pines card 3/22/71   Sun Nov 28, 2010 8:13 am

Yes, Morf, indeed, but question is if Z intended to hide the bodies. As the early confirmed cases suggest, he did not make any attempts in this regard.
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PostSubject: Re: Peek Through The Pines card 3/22/71   Mon Nov 29, 2010 12:00 am

Two things:
Z wrote he shall "change" the way he killed.I said the "etc."Z wrote is scary in that letter.So body position or status may have 'changed.'We don't know.

The Nordon site looks the best thus far.Those green sun glasses-the same type and color Lass wore(the sun affected her eyes as she wore contacts) were found there as pictured on my site.
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PostSubject: Re: Peek Through The Pines card 3/22/71   Mon Nov 29, 2010 3:44 am

Bruce3, I believe you are referring to the Claire Tappan Lodge area where a triangle, cross and 13 stones were found behind somewhere behind (another) Sierra Club. Can you provide a link to the exact spot, and is there a logical link between the 2 Sierra Clubs other than the names?
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PostSubject: Re: Peek Through The Pines card 3/22/71   Mon Nov 29, 2010 4:17 pm

Rol,
Yes.Sandy has searched that area and has posted about it.Her discovery of a cover over a "hole" would be as good as any to hide a body.It is near the "Sierra club" and "pass]t] Lake Tahoe areas."Donner Pass/Donna Lass?Z the poet as Dave would say.
At the site where the logs formed into a triangle and 13 rocks formed into a cross in the center of a 6X6 ft.triangle with a 14 ft.'circle'("around in the snow? of logs 'gathered from the area'were arranged and looked like the Rosicrucian symbol -their headquaters are in San Jose,CA-connected to Aliester Crowley -we were interested in this symbol find as CM/BD were into this cult-CM had studied it in prison as he had done with a full range of occult teachings,etc.) the 13 stones could have pointed to Z's victims during the time it was constructed-at least two Z productions point to 13 victims as does the Halloween card which was sent about a month after Lass vanished) Dave Peterson a police reporter and Z expert since '68 and my partner in Z research until his death-excavated the site.He felt if a body had been there it had since been removed by animals.
They found a pillow case with two slits and those green sun glasses we have posted on my site.Whether Z used this as a symbolic site to fool the police and /or to increase publicity it is not known.It or the 'grave' site was not found until years after the Pine card was sent by the former Postmaster Otto Fredricks of Nordon.It was was a chance event (Aug.'76) as he hiked one day. It 'shook'the former PM.He thought it was scary. It was so impressed him he took photos of the site.I believe that the late Harvey Hines had copies of those site photos.Contacting his family may produce results.Sandy would be a good contact here.She has seen those pictures.
I have contacted agencies with no luck.I really wanted reports.A LT Sgt. now retired sent me a fax in detail about the grave discovery(trying to get my web guy to post it),etc.I have posted on this subject many times in the past.

The exact 'grave'spot among a lot of pine trees (see my site photos) can't be determined by me or Sandy.It has since been been in disrepair.
My book has some info too,including the Roseicrucian symbol.They have their own alphabet.
To my knowledge Zer's in the Tahoe area have not investigated this area.If true it greatly surprises me.I think Sandy may have been there or the 'site' area this summer,but don't know for certain.
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PostSubject: Re: Peek Through The Pines card 3/22/71   Mon Nov 29, 2010 5:09 pm

Looks like my post of the grave site didn't go through.Too long to write again!Gez

There were four huts near the Claire Tappen lodge today and in 1970,which was the Sierra Club's flagship lodge.People would sign a guest book and could stay overnight.This book should should be examined from our time period.The 4 huts afforded a place to stay too.
I think the Tahoe ad was a smoke screen of sorts.The main Sierra Club lodge was at Nordon,CA at 7,000 ft.peak.More snow fall there than anywhere else around.It is on Donner Pass "pass Lake Tahoe areas"Rd-.Donna Lass?
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PostSubject: Grave site   Mon Nov 29, 2010 10:02 pm

bruce3 wrote:
Rol,
Yes.Sandy has searched that area and has posted about it.Her discovery of a cover over a "hole" would be as good as any to hide a body.It is near the "Sierra club" and "pass]t] Lake Tahoe areas."Donner Pass/Donna Lass?Z the poet as Dave would say.
At the site where the logs formed into a triangle and 13 rocks formed into a cross in the center of a 6X6 ft.triangle with a 14 ft.'circle'("around in the snow? of logs 'gathered from the area'were arranged and looked like the Rosicrucian symbol -their headquaters are in San Jose,CA-connected to Aliester Crowley -we were interested in this symbol find as CM/BD were into this cult-CM had studied it in prison as he had done with a full range of occult teachings,etc.) the 13 stones could have pointed to Z's victims during the time it was constructed-at least two Z productions point to 13 victims as does the Halloween card which was sent about a month after Lass vanished) Dave Peterson a police reporter and Z expert since '68 and my partner in Z research until his death-excavated the site.He felt if a body had been there it had since been removed by animals.
They found a pillow case with two slits and those green sun glasses we have posted on my site.Whether Z used this as a symbolic site to fool the police and /or to increase publicity it is not known.It or the 'grave' site was not found until years after the Pine card was sent by the former Postmaster Otto Fredricks of Nordon.It was was a chance event (Aug.'76) as he hiked one day. It 'shook'the former PM.He thought it was scary. It was so impressed him he took photos of the site.I believe that the late Harvey Hines had copies of those site photos.Contacting his family may produce results.Sandy would be a good contact here.She has seen those pictures.
I have contacted agencies with no luck.I really wanted reports.A LT Sgt. now retired sent me a fax in detail about the grave discovery(trying to get my web guy to post it),etc.I have posted on this subject many times in the past.

The exact 'grave'spot among a lot of pine trees (see my site photos) can't be determined by me or Sandy.It has since been been in disrepair.
My book has some info too,including the Roseicrucian symbol.They have their own alphabet.
To my knowledge Zer's in the Tahoe area have not investigated this area.If true it greatly surprises me.I think Sandy may have been there or the 'site' area this summer,but don't know for certain.


Yes that is true Bruce 3, I went there to take pictures of the site I had found yrs ago, after meeting with Harvey Hines in 1990. He showed me the pictures that he a Dave Peterson had taken of the rocks and tree branches. He showed me also a better picture of the pines card that was sent by the Zodiac, that to me were clued to where Donna was buried . The circle on the card that I thought was the moon, was a hole that was punched in the card by the killer.
That told me he was saying that she was buried in a hole in the snow ? I took Ricardo to the area where I had found the hole's that were covered with wooden planks. I could hear water way down deep in the holes.
There was more than one hole on the side of that Mountain. I couldn't find it the day we went to Norden, the holes hard to find. It was just by luck that I found it the first time ! Ricardo and I also checked out the possibility of "Forest Pines" being the correct area. We found two good places at Forest Pines that would have been easy for the Z to dispose of a body.
Remember that this killer like everything to be very easy, even his killings. He wouldn't dig a hole, we learned that when he wrote about the bus bomb. "Too hard to dig".

As it turns out, I found the picture that I had forgotten I took of the site the first time I went ! I might have to make a copy of it, and send it to Morf or Auth to post. Mean while my friend Ricardo, took lots of pictures while we were there, he plans on posting them on his site MK-Zodiac as soon as he can. He has been very busy with his work, and all of the things he and I found to share with all of you. He is meticulous in everything he does, so be patient it will be up asap.

You will be amazed at what we found, on all of our Zodiac trips this past year and a half.
Bruce3 has a lot of very good information he has collected over many years of investigation as well. If you want to know more about the Zodiac, Bruce's book is a must ! He has information about victims that most of you never heard of, that are so Z like, it couldn't be anyone else but the Z when he was down in southern Calif. doing his "Thing".
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PostSubject: Re: Peek Through The Pines card 3/22/71   Tue Nov 30, 2010 12:50 am

Hello Bruce, thank you for your replies. I also see Donner Pass area as the more compelling location and would not be surprised if "pass LAKE TAHOE areas" had a double meaning. Z certainly enjoyed playing with words and meanings.

What makes no immediate sense to me yet is that Z would have claimed victim #13 before he abducted #12. There seems to be an inconsistency between confirmed letter victim claim and the card/s attributed to the presumed abduction and following murder of Donna Lass.
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PostSubject: Re: Peek Through The Pines card 3/22/71   Tue Nov 30, 2010 7:36 pm

There is a website that clearly states that the card was fake http://www.zodiackiller.com/Lass.html. Any opinions/comments on that?

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PostSubject: Re: Peek Through The Pines card 3/22/71   Tue Nov 30, 2010 9:26 pm



Here is an image I posted on Z.com back in feb 1st 2009





IMO the March 22, 1971 Pine card should be concidered an authentical Zodiac communication.
Why?
Because:

1. In BOTH the authentical Zodiac Halloween card, and the Pine card, the name "Paul Averly" is misspelled, and misspelled the exact same way. (The correct spelling is Paul Avery.)

2. The handwriting IMO is a match.

3. The same technique, brushed, is used in both communications

4. The Pine card is sent on a Zodiac anniversery (1 year anniv. of Kathleen Johns abduction)
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PostSubject: Re: Peek Through The Pines card 3/22/71   Tue Nov 30, 2010 9:54 pm

Rol,
Will reply Weds.Busy,but it says "sought" victim 12 not 'caught' the victim.It does not say he killed victim 12.More later.I think he 'sought' Donna for a certain period of time.
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PostSubject: Re: Peek Through The Pines card 3/22/71   Wed Dec 01, 2010 12:16 am

Bruce & TF,

Thank you very much for your posts.

It is also my opinion that the card is probably authentic. There are many points that would point towards possible authenticity, but there are two items that seem to contest that:

1. A website familar with the case and with contatcs to LE claims having first hand information that letter had been faked

2. Donna Lass was abducted as presumed victim #12 on Sept. 7, 1970, while Z claimed victim #13 with authentic Z letter of July 13, 1970, months ahead of the presumed Lass abduction. I very much doubt that Z would have miscounted his victims





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PostSubject: Re: Peek Through The Pines card 3/22/71   Wed Dec 01, 2010 2:46 pm

Rol,
Again,Z writes "sought."This does not say he 'caught'killed this victim.That could have happened making another unknown victim under his 'new program'(he was inconsitant once making KJ a victim and by implication the child too!)or in line with 'I shall no longer announce who I killed...'thus making DL victim unlucky "13." A retroactive remark? We don't know what was going in Z's life and he is writing a train of letters with gaps in between so this alone allows for an error !!!;he could have made a mistake.He was not a perfect master criminal! He did make mistakes as we all know.

For there to be a true contradiction there has to be no possible way or manner that two factors can be reconciled.In this case there are three factors that are possible.I can can go into more detail if necessary.

The card fully indicates according to LE that Lass was his victim.The 3/22/71 or one year anniversery of Johns;the = sign used in Western Union telegrams like the confession motif;the "Averly" spelling,and the fact all writing or markings was 'brush lettered' as was the Halloween card where "Averly" was misspelled also,and the 10/5/70 card(both this card and the 10/27/70 production had the same unusual stamp on them.) The hand brush lettering was not known to the public as far as I can determine.I stand corrected on this.

There is no proof or real evidence that someone else faked the Pines.State Examiner and world authority on Z's writing up till his death or Sherwood Morrill said all writing on this card was 'consistant' with Z's.This means pen uplifts,impressions,etc.,not just outer appearances.
As far as Toschi faking the Pines card is to me unthinkable.He has very strongly affirmed he has never faked any Z letters.He told an associate of mine in private by phone when he was Head of security that he would never do such a thing or fake a Z letter or any form of Z missive. He was greatly offended.
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PostSubject: Re: Peek Through The Pines card 3/22/71   Wed Dec 01, 2010 3:27 pm

Former Post Master of Nordon Otto Fredricks August 1976 found the 'grave' while hiking.He had never seen such a thing and it bothered him greatly.He took several photos of this site.It consisted of a large'magic circle' ("around" in the snow"?there are 3 Z related productions that have upside 'printing'- the astro page;bloody cross card and the Halloween card-also Sandy B.found a roundish hole covered with a wooden cover -there is a hole punched in the card and SB found it in the Nordon- Soda Springs area ) of logs/branches gathered from the area of about 14 ft.in diameter; the inner logs formed a trangle encased in a rectangle had 13 stones (lines up with 13 victims on the 10/27/70 and 10/5/70 cards) in the shape or form of a cross as with the 'cross of words' in the Halloween card and the 'bloody cross' card.
This appeared to Dave Peterson as the symbol for the Rosicrucians or 'rosey cross'(CM had studied this San Jose,CA headquartered cult- Dave knew this).Aliester Crowley was connected to this cult and wore a hood and robe which I have pictured in my book.

AV spoke of men as his "slaves" as did Ron Hubbard founder of Scientology"all men are my slaves",CM/BD studied his teachings which is well known.They had studied Crowley,etc.AC's picture was on the Beatle's Sgt.Pepper album! CM read after AC and the occult while in prison;and his love for all things Beatles is well known.

The Pines card says "pass Lake Tahoe areas."The Claire Tappan Lodge the flagship Sierra Club(mentioned on the Pines too) lodge since the 1930's and is atop Donner pass-Donna Lass? The lodge's address is Donner Pass road.There was no main Sierra Club Lodge in the Incline Village area.That was a base for a ruse in my opinion with the usual Z subtle clues.It was in the SF Chronicle (where Avery worked)so the LT theme was used then Z added those puzzle like statements,etc.
Did the word "Incline" symbolize death? A man is seen digging in the snow a message his victim was buried this time? Just a toss out.Did Z try to throw off the police by using the wrong area, but stil leave clues to the real "areas"as it says on the PC with even the victim's name Donna Lass in symbol as Donner Pass hidden by implication?

The lodge has always accomodated vistors since the early days.Guests signed a log.Why no one in that area that is into Z has examined this book is beyond me.

For fun only there are four satilite lodges to the main Sierra Club Lodge in 1970,but built many years before.There are four dots on the so called new Z symbol. FYO only

Always mysteries with Zodiac!
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