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 1990 Eureka Card

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PostSubject: Re: 1990 Eureka Card   Mon Sep 06, 2010 3:07 pm

Yes Linda perhaps it is best to say this is an authentic TJK correspondence. I say this is 99% TJK Under what disguise doesn't really matter. IMHO arguing any of these letters authenticity is moot. None of these are going to make or break this case/s at this point.
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PostSubject: Re: 1990 Eureka Card   Mon Sep 06, 2010 3:18 pm

AweShucks wrote:
MrBungle wrote:


And just to restate my Eureka opinion...I don't think it's a fake, I think it has absolutely nothing to do with Zodiac at all.

It is very likely a Unabomber correspondence Ted can be confirmed in the area that year.

Hmmm...that's an interesting possibility. But what could the significance of it (and the keys) be if it was Ted K.?

AK, comment? Very Happy
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PostSubject: Re: 1990 Eureka Card   Mon Sep 06, 2010 3:24 pm

I think Doug Oswell figured it to be an anagram for Kaczynski http://unazod.com/eureka.html
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PostSubject: Re: 1990 Eureka Card   Mon Sep 06, 2010 3:30 pm

Thanks for the link, Awe...the thing that gets me is the handwriting in the note does look quite similar to that on the Eureka envelope.

Did Ted have a propensity for using pencil at all?

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PostSubject: Re: 1990 Eureka Card   Mon Sep 06, 2010 8:47 pm

I thought I remember reading or seeing somewhere that he used mechanical pencils, but I do not remember where...I will have to look for that....I don't know what they let them use in prison....probably not mechanical pencils, as there is too much that could be "done" with them.... Shocked
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PostSubject: Re: 1990 Eureka Card   Mon Sep 06, 2010 9:54 pm

I know Ted handwrote his journals. How many of his threatening Unabomber letters were handwritten, though?
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PostSubject: Re: 1990 Eureka Card   Mon Sep 06, 2010 11:22 pm

Nachtsider wrote:
I know Ted handwrote his journals. How many of his threatening Unabomber letters were handwritten, though?

To my knowledge all were typed.
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PostSubject: Re: 1990 Eureka Card   Tue Sep 07, 2010 2:53 am

AweShucks wrote:
Yes Linda perhaps it is best to say this is an authentic TJK correspondence. I say this is 99% TJK Under what disguise doesn't really matter. IMHO arguing any of these letters authenticity is moot. None of these are going to make or break this case/s at this point.

No disagreement there. And if it truly is a TK correspondence, I can just imagine what "fun" he had when he found this card and what chuckles he must have received from sending it...
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PostSubject: Re: 1990 Eureka Card   Tue Sep 07, 2010 1:55 pm

AK Wilks wrote:
Nachtsider wrote:
I know Ted handwrote his journals. How many of his threatening Unabomber letters were handwritten, though?

To my knowledge all were typed.

Never Mind I misread the post Rolling Eyes
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PostSubject: Eureka card prod. date 1990 acc. to American Greetings Co   Mon Sep 20, 2010 1:24 pm






According to Opord member z_assay: the Eureka card was produced in 1990 according to American Greetings Co.

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PostSubject: Re: 1990 Eureka Card   Mon Sep 20, 2010 2:30 pm

Theforeigner posted:


According to Opord member z_assay: the Eureka card was produced in 1990 according to American Greetings Co.






Interesting. Thanks for posting that.

I wonder if the Christmas Tree with "Greetings" stamp was also issued in 1990?
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PostSubject: Re: 1990 Eureka Card   Mon Sep 20, 2010 4:23 pm

Now that we know the date is authentic, the next logical question is, "was it sent by the Zodiac?"

I also have additional questions about Tom's follow-up on the USPS keys. Maybe Sandie can answer some of these.

Once the USPS office was located and the PO Box pertaining to the keys, was a current key acquired to match up the photocopied keys unique cut? If so, were they a match?
Did Tom inquire if the locks were ever changed on the PO Boxes, and if so, when?
(the two precluding questions would determine if the correct PO Box was indeed located, or even potentially located)
Was "Sam" the owner of the PO Box the entire year of 1990?
Who was the previous owner, and what was the timeframe of ownership?
Did Sam ever loan his PO Box keys to neighbors, etc?
Did Sam ever lose his keys or did he ever have his keys replaced?
Was there ever any attempt to identify the employees working at the USPS office in the year 1990 that may have had access to the keys?
I don't quite understand why there are two keys... Does every PO Box come with two different keys, or do the keys indicate two different PO Boxes?
If there are two different PO Boxes, did Sam own both of them?
If not, who was the other owner?

Did Tom ever detail his investigation into the keys and the PO Box(es)? If so, can someone provide a link? It would seem very wasteful and foolish to perform this type of leg work and not document the results in detail for others to read.
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PostSubject: Re: 1990 Eureka Card   Mon Sep 20, 2010 5:06 pm

Very good questions. I wish I knew the answers. Tom has been pretty secretive about the whole SAM aspect.

Maybe someone can post what they know.

Meanwhile, I think a "little fishie" posted these, which serve to higlight what the numbers are thought to be.

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PostSubject: Re: 1990 Eureka Card   Mon Sep 20, 2010 5:08 pm

sandy betts wrote:
The keys were checked, and found to belong to Sam at a po box in Eureka.
Myself and Dahlia were the ones who helped Tom V. with his Sam investigation.
Sam was a pretty interesting person, and kept us going for a while.
I saw the Card, and believe that it was sent from the Zodiac, but Sam was not the Zodiac.
That thing that was attached to the keys that Mike B said had to be a magnet, turns out that it could have been a pen light. A pen light would make a lot more sense if it was from the Z, not a magnet. I have had these small pen lights before, and I used them to see key holes at night. Z claimed to have used one on his gun at Lake Herman rd.

The picture of keys that were sent with the Christmas card, I think was another game the z likes to play. He could have found them on the ground somewhere ? They were traced to Sam is how he became a suspect.
There are certain things that I have noticed on other cards sent from the Z, that I found on this Eureka card, is why I believe it is a true Z card.

Look back at all the Z like things that happened in 1990 ? Something made him come out from under his rock that yr. It was also the same yr that my suspect forced me to quit my job of many yrs. He was getting more brazen, pointing guns at me, then trying to force me off of roads late at night. It would have been too easy for him to get me had I stayed at my job, and drive 45 miles home each night.
I went into hiding for a few months, but he found me anyway.

My suspect loves his game of cat and mouse, me being the mouse of course lol.
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PostSubject: Re: 1990 Eureka Card   Mon Sep 20, 2010 5:10 pm

sandy betts wrote:
AK Wilks wrote:
How can you be sure they were his keys?

Can you tell us anything more about Sam? What he looked like? What ge did for a living? Was he involved in political causes?

I trusted Tom V and his connections ( he has some very good connections)The Keys were traced back to a po box in Eureka ,and the person Sam ,was the one who had that box at that time in 1990.

He was a insurance salesman who traveled all over Calif. He looked tall in the picture we got of him about 6 ft tall. He had some money and owned a home in S.F. His family had lived in S.F.
To me he didn't look like the Z composite.

He also owned property near Modesto at the right time for the K.Johns ride. A lot of things did add up for him being a good suspect. He had moods at times when he would want to be alone. A lot of the info we got, was from a family member.

Dahlia and I went up to Eureka and found writing samples of his, they looked pretty good. We also went to his home and took pictures, his garage door was open. To me The Z would never leave anything open.
More like L. Kane who has everything closed off from the world, you can not see into his place at all !
It is amazing how many people we can build a case around on circumstantial evidence alone .
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PostSubject: Re: 1990 Eureka Card   Mon Sep 20, 2010 5:46 pm

AK Wilks wrote:
Very good questions. I wish I knew the answers. Tom has been pretty secretive about the whole SAM aspect.

Maybe someone can post what they know.

Meanwhile, I think a "little fishie" posted these, which serve to higlight what the numbers are thought to be.


I posted this before, but will do so again. I asked my local post office guy (experienced guy that has been with them for over 20 years) what the numbers on my po box keys meant. He said that they were an internal number used by that specific post office for the mailbox info. He said that only if you knew what branch the keys belonged to, would you know what the numbers meant. For example, if you found a po box key in Vallejo, you couldnt take it into Riverside, and get them to look up the key and tell you who's po bx it belonged to. But if the key was lying on the ground outside of the Vallejo Post office, and was turned into them (and if it belonged to them), then they could look it up and get info about who it belonged to.
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PostSubject: Re: 1990 Eureka Card   Mon Sep 20, 2010 6:08 pm

AK Wilks wrote:
Meanwhile, I think a "little fishie" posted these, which serve to higlight what the numbers are thought to be.



Print out an 8 x 10 photo of the keys. It is: 79468 & 58351

It does look like the above at first glance. The three stamp is rounded. You can see it doesn't have the same circular area as the 8. The zero sure likes like one, but it is a 6. They too are rounded. The "belly" of the 6 almost touches the top. It's hard to see. If you print out a large version...you can see it. (I have a 3 and 6 on my keys and mine were given to me in '91 and '04 and are stamped the same way.)

Morf--you are correct. My PO guy told me the same thing, but I told him I lost mine and didn't know where. He said they could be traced to me, but it wasn't an easy task. I'd be better off changing the locks.

I wonder without the actual keys--if the numbers were given incorrectly, were they traced to the wrong person??! AND were they both owned by the same person?
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PostSubject: Re: 1990 Eureka Card   Mon Sep 20, 2010 6:11 pm

Sandy,

Could you please clarify some of your statements and/or help answer my questions? A lot of what you previously posted is very vague. No offense to Tom, but it's not very helpful to take people's "word" when trying to investigate. Of course, he did the work and he's not obligated to share any of his findings, but we all share the same goal (at least I hope we all do), which is to reveal Zodiac's identity and/or have him captured and convicted.

Could you shed some more light on the following:

"The keys were checked."
How were they checked - what method(s) were used?

"and found to belong to Sam at a po box in Eureka."
How were they traced back to Sam - what method(s) were used?

"Sam was a pretty interesting person, and kept us going for a while."
How was he interesting? How old was he? Did he seem intelligent? What was his estimated weight (you mention 6' tall for height)? How long did he own the PO Box? Did he own the PO Box the entire year of 1990?

"I saw the Card, and believe that it was sent from the Zodiac"
Why do you think the card was sent from the Zodiac? What specific characteristics of the card ties into the Zodiac in your opinion?

"Sam was not the Zodiac?"
What evidence (circumstantial or otherwise) ruled him out as a suspect?

"That thing that was attached to the keys that Mike B said had to be a magnet, turns out that it could have been a pen light...Z claimed to have used one on his gun at Lake Herman rd."
Didn't Zodiac claim he taped a flashlight to his gun originally? A small pen light would not be powerful enough to light up an open area - they are used for upclose inspection in the dark, like a key hole as you pointed out.

"He could have found them on the ground somewhere ? They were traced to Sam is how he became a suspect."
Was that hypothesis - of Zodiac finding keys - ever explored through questioning? Did Sam ever lose, loan, or replace his keys? Were USPS employees ever checked out? How were the keys "traced" back to Sam.

"There are certain things that I have noticed on other cards sent from the Z, that I found on this Eureka card, is why I believe it is a true Z card. "
Can you please explain?

Sandy - if you were part of the investigation led by Tom, you should have first hand knowledge with somewhat detailed accounts of the tracing process, validation process, and subsequent process of ruling out Sam as a suspect. Do you know if Tom has written any type of extensive or detailed report or brief on this particular subject that is made available online?

All I know, is that Tom pretty much considers the Eureka card a dead-end, or fake, or simply inconsequential. The images of the card are no longer available on ZK.com via a hyperlink, but you can still access the images if you know the direct URL. I think there is more to this card than meets the eye.


Last edited by z_assay on Mon Sep 20, 2010 6:31 pm; edited 1 time in total
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PostSubject: Re: 1990 Eureka Card   Mon Sep 20, 2010 6:21 pm

Ok, so we know there is a way to trace PO Box keys to a person. The obvious follow-up questions to that would be, how then was the trace validated? We can all agree the numbers are very hard to make out with high certainty. How do we know the numbers used were the correct ones; therefore, tracing back to the correct person? Another obvious question would be to ask if the lock had been changed since 1990 (chances are they have been). Also, was it verified that "Sam" was the owner of the PO Box for the entire year of 1990, and even 1989?
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PostSubject: Re: 1990 Eureka Card   Mon Sep 20, 2010 6:36 pm

From Morf:

1990 Eureka Card:






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PostSubject: Re: 1990 Eureka Card   Mon Sep 20, 2010 6:54 pm

Thanks AK,

I mentioned Tom Voigt removing the Eureka card image links from his site to infer his disinterest in the card. I still have the URLs to the high resolution scans that were once linked on ZK.com. It's how I retrieved the image of the back of the card to extract the barcode and card ID in order to forward to Amercian Greetings Co.
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PostSubject: Re: 1990 Eureka Card   Mon Sep 20, 2010 8:48 pm

Quote :
Print out an 8 x 10 photo of the keys. It is: 79468 & 58351

I was wrong??? WRONG YOU SAY?!?!?? Well... maybe. I think you might be correct about the 58351. But I'm pretty sure the other is 79408.

This is the best pic I have... might be a little better than what's been posted.

-tbz

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PostSubject: Re: 1990 Eureka Card   Mon Sep 20, 2010 9:47 pm

z_assay wrote:
Thanks AK,

I mentioned Tom Voigt removing the Eureka card image links from his site to infer his disinterest in the card. I still have the URLs to the high resolution scans that were once linked on ZK.com. It's how I retrieved the image of the back of the card to extract the barcode and card ID in order to forward to Amercian Greetings Co.
\

Ah, that was you! Nice job, man.

It'd be really nice of you to post the high resolution scans of the card, if you would Wink

As for the key's numbers...I've checked a few different copies of the keys, and I'm not sure...sometimes it looks like -08, sometimes it looks like -68. I'm torn. Check out this scan:



An aside, I'm not sure if Butterfield claimed the device was a magnet (I searched and couldn't find his opinion on it), however Zsearcher on ZKF mentioned that it might be one.
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PostSubject: Re: 1990 Eureka Card   Mon Sep 20, 2010 11:32 pm

The strange item with the keys was identified by Doug Oswell as a small pen magnet, often used in gold mining. (I presume to seperate Iron (Fe) from Gold (Au).
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PostSubject: Re: 1990 Eureka Card   Mon Sep 20, 2010 11:35 pm


It looks just like this magnet to me.
tahoe27 wrote:
Mine is a magnet:
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