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 Reasons why your "Other Suspect & POI" is Z or should be taken seriously

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rand
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PostSubject: Reasons why your "Other Suspect & POI" is Z or should be taken seriously   Mon Jun 14, 2010 11:59 am

The first thing anyone should do when offering a POI is lay out in great detail why you suspect this person, rather than everyone else in the world, was the Zodiac. This is the forest (the smell test, if you like); then we can go ahead and consider the individual trees. Considering the trees without first seeing the forest will only confuse the issue.

Since others believe that asking this core and most basic question is a distraction on their individual threads regarding their POI, I've created this separate thread. When everyone who has a POI has listed their specific reasons for their suspicions, we'll have a one-stop shopping place to compare and contrast the merits of the individual cases.
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PostSubject: Re: Reasons why your "Other Suspect & POI" is Z or should be taken seriously   Mon Jun 14, 2010 12:01 pm

TROY HOUGHTON LINKS TO Z



TH shot out the tires of a woman's car in 1964; Z talked about shooting out the tires of a school bus.

TH targeted young girls to flash; Z talked about targeting "kiddies"

TH was written about in a nationally syndicated column with Little List in the title

The MM were compared to G&S in a series of articles on the MM in the Arizona Republic in 1968. DePugh thought this expose was important enough to respond to with a letter when he was a fugitive in NM.

TH fits the composite in terms of height, weight, stocky, widow's peak, age, brownish curly hair

TH was speaking at the Jolly Roger Inn, CA when guns were drawn and this incident appeared in the LA Times and other papers. Z sent a Jolly Roger greeting card.

TH's wife and father-in-law owned art supply companies; the MM did their own publishing

TH was convicted twice of flashing. The image on the HC is, IMO, of a flasher

The by gun, by knife, by rope, by fire image forms a tH. The MM decal has by knife, by rope, by fire and a crosshair symbol. By fire: Houghton committed arson at age 14. His lawyer died in a fire after failing to get him an
appeal -- a lawyer who TH claimed sold him up the river

TH had a class A license in explosives. He owned a company called Trojan Mining and Blasting Co.

A mysterious letter was sent after CJB murder from a Patricia Hautz...Troy HAUGHTON.

In The Minutemen, Harry wrote: "Houghton sported a button on his coat reading 'S.O.B.' -- for 'Sweep Out Brown.'"
So TH wore snarky buttons, while Z insisted people wear his button and spoke of silly buttons like Melvin Eats Bluber

TH was a member of the White Knights of the KKK. A Dragon is portrayed on the original KKK flag (Dragon card). The Good Citizen was a KKK publication. 5 of the 7 elements of the KKK are water, hood, robe, sword, cross (represented as a Celtic cross in a circle). All elements present at LB. The other two are god and country.

The MM decal talks about a poison pen. The dripping-pen card may be a poison pen letter.

Most of the murders were committed on days and/or in places that are symbolic of the Revolutionary period.

TH talked about 13 bullet holes in his car. The postcard has 13 holes punched in it.

The MM flag was a Betsy Ross flag with 13 stars. 13 eyes on the HC.

The FBI suspected the Minutemen were in the hills in Deer Lodge MT when the escaped Deer Lodge convicts were up there as well. Z claimed to be an escaped convict from Deer Lodge prison.

The MM were trained in codes, ciphers, mail deception, letters to the editor, making bombs, how to use a rifle, and other guerilla tactics. All of these are consistent with what we know about Z.

TH had a shortwave radio in his office that he relied upon for his safety. (THIS IS THE ZODIAC SPEAKING).

TH was a regional coordinator for the Minutemen. Z placed a clock-stamp on the envelope of the Exorcist letter:
http://www.zodiackiller.com/ExorcistEnvelope.html

TH's name can be found in the 408; and +he Minutemen can be found in the code when the last 18 letters of the translation are recoded.

The Minutemen(crosshair symbol) fits the My Name Is cipher in terms of letter and symbol distribution.

TH's voice was described as "toneless" in the Look Magazine article.

Z put 13 eyes on the inside of the HC. TH was featured in LOOK magazine.

TH says in the Look article in 1966 that he and the MM were apolitical -- beyond politics, which had let them down too many times to care about anymore.

TH was on the front page and pages of the LA Times dozens of times. Z said that he was writing to the LA Times because they don't bury him on the back pages like some of the others.

TH said right before he disappeared that he had a list of people who would be murdered.

TH was arrested on a concealed weapons charge and a Federal weapons charge for using a silencer.

TH was accused of harrassing Mosk, who in response to these and other MM activities introduced a bill to ban mail-order guns in CA. The bill was successful. Z talked about acquiring one of his guns prior to the mail-order ban.

The MM put decals of a crosshair on cars. Z put a crosshair and wrote on Hartnell's door.

TH drove a beatup white car. Z was said to be driving a light-colored or white car; there were four different tires on his car at LB.

BRS occurred on July 4th, LB was on Adam's birthday (Paul Revere's ride to warn Adams); Stine occurred on Columbus Day weekend; LHR occurred 4 years to the day when TH shot out the tires of the woman's car and was the night prior to TH's first son's, Troy's, 13th birthday.

The San Diego Honeymoon murders seem very similiar to Z's murders. TH lived in San Diego.

CJB's murder occurred on the very night when a large MM bust occurred in NY. A watch (Minute man) was found at the scene. The teletyped letter reads very much like the MM decal (Harry noticed this). TH was most probably in LA with DePugh that afternoon at a MM fundraiser. The CJB murder and the MM bust appeared together on the front pages of the Southern California newspapers.

TH was booked for malicious destruction of property for clipping out two pages from a library book in 1966.
CJB was murdered when she left the RCC library in 1966.

In July 1969, Belli represented a murderer (the trunk murderer) who had gone underground using a fake identity for over 35 years, and this appeared in all the California newspapers, esp. Bay Area ones.
http://img96.imageshack.us/img96/6051/houghtonbellifugitive19.jpg
http://img651.imageshack.us/img651/6051/houghtonbellifugitive19.jpg

Belli was also Jack Ruby's lawyer. The MM were implicated in the JFK assassination TH said he immediately went underground after the assassination. Oswald himself mentioned the MM several times in his writings.

Eleven days after the JFK assassination, a letter postmarked Lancaster CA was sent to Dallas that looks very much like a Z letter: http://jfk.ci.dallas.tx.us/04/0403-002.gif
Houghton's right-hand man, Dennis Mower, lived in Lancaster, CA. JFK can be seen in the backwards letters in the Diablo code.

And while the TH handwriting is inconclusive because it's cursive and Z didn't write much in cursive, there are some very compelling, IMO, comparisons:

Haughton's TH


TH from Bates Letter:



Troy's T with distinctive curl at the end:



The R in Riverside on the Hautz envelope with distinctive curl at the end:



This is from this envelope


Another very odd and characteristic similarity is that Troy makes his t's without crossing them. He comes back at the end of the word and crosses it.



Notice that in the Hautz envelope, the writer started Enterprise but then crossed it out. The t was made just as Troy makes it: a loop but there is no cross, as if that would be made at the end of the word coming back.





THE POISON PEN:



THE GUN, THE ROPE, THE KNIFE



THE FIRE



LIBRARY CRIMES AND RH:

Cheri Jo Bates was murdered on Oct. 30, 1966. The MM had a huge bust in NYC that afternoon and Troy and DePugh were in LA earlier in the day. Bates was murdered outside Riverside Community College Library, where she had been before meeting her killer. Houghton was arrested in 1966 for tearing out pages of a library book.



The Riverside Desktop Poem, found by a janitor months afterwards, is signed rh. Obviously, h could be for Houghton. What's the r? Z signed a letter in 1971, the Red Phantom (red with rage). Could the r be red with rage? Could it mean red with rage Houghton? I assume that writing on the underside of a library desktop would also qualify as malicious destruction of property.



GREETING CARDS:


Here is a letter written to Troy Houghton in 1965. Notice Cook, the sender, says: "your 'greeting card' has stimulated my curiousity"



Like Z, Troy used Greeting Cards in his mailings. This is very odd, though I know you don't agree. I did a search of 10s of thousands of FBI documents, and the only greeting card was sent by Troy Houghton. Greeting cards are sent all the time. But both Zodiac and Houghton sent greeting cards for reasons that had nothing to do with holidays, illness, sympathy, birthdays, etc. That is odd. Here is Troy's greeting card:



The significance of Z's claim that the LA Times "don't bury me on the back pages like some of the others"

In the March 13, 1971 letter to the LA Times (click here: http://www.zodiackiller.com/LATimesLetter.html ), Z said that he was writing to the LA Times because "they don't bury me on the back pages like some of the others." During my research of the Minutemen in the newspaper archives, I've noticed that The LA Times featured many stories -- far and away the most stories of any newspaper -- about Houghton (virtually anything he did that was mildly newsworthy) and the Minutemen. The Bay Area papers ignored both Houghton and the Minutemen; and when they did run stories about them, they were buried on the back pages. Everyone thinks that Z's comment about burying him in the back pages was a complaint about not getting coverage for his activities. But this makes no sense: the Bay Area papers gave the Zodiac far more coverage than any other newspapers in the country (for good reason). So there's been lots of discussion about what Z could have meant by this strange statement that the LA Times "don't bury him on the back pages." The confusion arises from the assumption that Z was a nobody in his everyday life. Once that preconception is jettisoned, the seemingly odd statement seems to be a clue that Z was known not just for being Zodiac but for his everyday identity. I think it's Houghton pointing out that the LA Times covers his exploits more than any other paper.

The Necessary "Montana Connection":
From the LA Times, Paul Coates, "New Revere On Horseback," Oct. 5, 1965: "Haughton suggest that members could obtain 'survival' books from a firm called Pilgrims Torch in Colorado. He said that Poor Richard's Book Shop in Hollywood had moved to Montana during the recent Watts riot and had taken all their material with them." Montana is important because, when Z killed Shepard and stabbed Hartnell at Lake Berryessa, he claimed to be an escaped prisoner from Deer Lodge Prison in Montana (here's Hartnell's interview soon after the attack where he mentions this: http://www.zodiackiller.com/HartnellInterview2.html ). So Z would have had to be somewhat familiar with Montana. The move of Poor Richard's Book Shop and Houghton's mention of this in 1965, provide a significant connection between Houghton and Montana.

More important: Z mentioned that he was an escaped convict from Deer Lodge prison in July 1969. So I research it, and voila: there were 12 escaped convicts from Deer Lodge in July 1968. They were all returned, but there was still an armed mystery man in the mountains. The FBI suspects that the mystery man or men in the mountains -- who clubbed a woman on the head, stole her car, ammo, and three high-powered rifles -- was a Minuteman or Minutemen. Why would Z say he was an escaped convict from, of all places, Deer Lodge prison? It makes little sense, unless he was in the mountains when they escaped. Z's own words got me researching Deer Lodge escapees. And then the research leads directly to (of all the groups and people in the world) the Minutemen. Just another coincidence, I suppose.


The Citizen Card, May 8, 1974: A Clue to Z's "Minuteman identity":
Back: http://www.zodiackiller.com/CitizenCard1.html
Front: http://www.zodiackiller.com/CitizenCard2.html
Notice Zodiac chose a Samuel Adams stamp for the Citizen letter (the signature, "a citizen," also smacks of the Revolutionary period). The purpose of Paul Revere's famous "Midnight Ride" from Boston to Lexington was to warn John Hancock and Samuel Adams of the movements of the British Army, which was beginning a march from Boston to Lexington, ostensibly to arrest Hancock and Adams and seize the weapons stores in Concord. And, get this: Adams was born on the September 27, the same date as the murder at Lake Berryessa/Monticello. And Paul Revere died May 10, 1818. The Citizen Letter was sent on May 8, 1974.


The±Minutemen
How? The letter distribution of the cipher is the same as for The Minutemen:
The My Name Is cipher code:
AEN±8K8M8^NAM
2 As
2 Ms
2 Ns
3 8s
1 E
1 K
1± (crosshair symbol)

THE±MINUTEMEN
2 Ms
2 Ns
2 Ts
3 Es
1 H
1 U
1 ± (crosshair symbol)

So you can get The±Minutemen from the My Name Is cipher as an anagram.


TROY HOUGHTON WAS, IMO, A FUGITIVE WHO WENT UNDERGROUND. WAS Z UNDERGROUND?

Little List letter: Z made this line up. Why?
As someday it may happen that a victom must be found. I've got a little list. I've got a little list, of society offenders who might well be underground who would never be missed who would never be missed.

Examiner letter:



BusBomb Letter, p. 3:

+ I said yes there was this man who was runnig by waveing a gun & the cops peeled rubber + went around the corner as I directed them + I disappeared into the park a block + a half away never to be seen again.

FROM ONE ARTICLE IN LOOK MAGAZINE IN JULY 1967

1. LOOKS JUST LIKE THE COMPOSITE AND DESCRIPTION. AND NOTE THE WATCH ON HIS WRIST. SEEMS CONSISTENT, IMO, WITH THE ONE FOUND AT CJB SCENE



2. TALKS IN A TONELESS VOICE. IS ECCENTRIC AND PARANOID TO THE POINT OF TAPE RECORDING THE INTERVIEWER.



3. HAS A SHORTWAVE RADIO CONSTANTLY BUZZING IN THE BACKGROUND. IT'S HIS LIFELINE. THIS IS TROY HOUGHTON SPEAKING. THIS IS THE ZODIAC SPEAKING. ALSO, TELETYPE MACHINE RE ENTERPRISE LETTER COULD HAVE BEEN CONNECTED TO HIS SHORTWAVE RADIO (COMMON TO DO THIS).



4. TALKS ABOUT CARRYING RIFLES AND GUNS WITH SILENCERS IN HIS BRIEFCASE



5. HOUGHTON AND JFK CONNECTION. THE ARTICLE, WHICH APPEARED IN 1967, SHOWS HOUGHTON STILL OBSESSED WITH PARANOIA ABOUT JFK ASSASSINATION.



THE DIABLO CODE HAS LETTERS JFK BACKWARDS



5. 13 BULLET HOLES



13 EYES. EYES=LOOK (MAGAZINE)






ALL IN JUST ONE LOOK MAGAZINE ARTICLE ON TROY HOUGHTON Suspect


Also, from an FBI document 5/13/1964, HOUGHTON HAD A SLIPPED DISC IN HIS BACK WHICH MAY EXPLAIN THE SUPPOSED LIMP IN Z'S GAIT.

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PostSubject: Re: Reasons why your "Other Suspect & POI" is Z or should be taken seriously   Mon Jun 14, 2010 2:22 pm

What is my suspect is "unknown", meaning someone with certain characteristics, etc. who is not on any list yet...

Meaning, I have ideas about the Z's personality, education, etc., but not a specific person in mind...
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PostSubject: Re: Reasons why your "Other Suspect & POI" is Z or should be taken seriously   Mon Jun 14, 2010 2:35 pm

Zabagliona wrote:
What is my suspect is "unknown", meaning someone with certain characteristics, etc. who is not on any list yet...

Meaning, I have ideas about the Z's personality, education, etc., but not a specific person in mind...

I think it is still fair game to post about him. You don't need to give a name, but a list of things that make him an interesting subject might be nice.

Rand--You might want to post the one photo where the circle-cross is painted in the street. (?)

I think you have provided us with good information. Things that make you go hmmmm. Wink
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PostSubject: Re: Reasons why your "Other Suspect & POI" is Z or should be taken seriously   Mon Jun 14, 2010 2:39 pm

....thank you Tahoe...I will do that later when I have more time...

I agree about Rand's suspect....Yikes!! That is a lot of good (and scary...) information...
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PostSubject: Re: Reasons why your "Other Suspect & POI" is Z or should be taken seriously   Mon Jun 14, 2010 2:53 pm

THE CASE FOR TED KACZYNSKI AS THE ZODIAC

Could the known code expert, bomb designer and cold blooded murderer Theodore Kaczynski have been the Zodiac, who shared all those same qualities and traits? Kaczynski taught at U Cal Berkeley from 1967 to 1969, a position for which he interviewed in the Fall/Winter of 1966. So he was in the SF Bay area for all the key dates of Zodiac activity. In all the public records, there are no conflicts between Kaczynski and known Zodiac murder and mailing dates. An attorney for Kaczynski said that no ailibi's could be presented for any of the Zodiac murder and mailing dates between 1966 and 1974. A witness has placed Kaczynski at the scene of the East Coast Zodiac type knife murder of fellow U of M grad Betsy Aardsma in the Penn State University library on November 28, 1969.

KACZYNSKI AND ZODIAC CONNECTION TO DEER LODGE, MONTANA

One very interesting fact: Zodiac said on 9/27/69 to Bryan Hartnell that he had escaped from "Deer Lodge, Montana", an obscure but beautiful small town that has a state prison. How many people in California would have heard of that town, and why would it be on their minds that they would mention it? I think the number would be very small. But Ted had just driven through or by this tiny town in the middle of nowhere with his brother weeks earlier, and he remarked how beautiful an area it was. It made such an impression that it was within an hour of where Ted would buy the cabin he would live in the rest of his life.

A COMPARISON OF SHARED WORD USAGE, PHRASES AND STYLES BY THE ZODIAC AND KACZYNSKI (MOSTLY BY DOUG OSWELL AND A FEW BY AK WILKS)

Z = Zodiac K = Kaczynski/Unabomber


Z = I hope you enjoy your selves when I have my Blast. Jolly Roger Card.

K = For these reasons, I want to get my revenge in one big blast. GX18-2003F, p. 11.


Z = At the moment the children are safe from the bomb because it is so massive to dig in & the triger mech requires much work to get it adjusted just right. Belli Letter, 1969.

K = Its no fun having to spend all your evenings and weekends preparing dangerous mixtures, filing trigger mechanisms out of scraps of metal .... New York Times Letter, 1995.


Z = I gave the cops som bussy work to do to keep them happy. Seven-Page Letter, 1969.

K = This seems to us a thoroughly contemptible way for the human race to end up, and we doubt that many people would find fulfilling lives in such pointless busy-work. Unabomber Manifesto, 1995.


Z = This is the murderer of the 2 teenagers last Christmass at Lake Herman & the girl on the 4th of July near the golf course in Vallejo. To prove I killed them I shall state some facts which only I & the police know. Three-Part Cipher, 1969.

K = To prove that we are the ones who planted the bomb at U. Of Cal. last May we will mention a few details that could be known only to us and the FBI who investigated the incident. S.F. Examiner Letter, 1985.


Z = The police shall never catch me, because I have been too clever for them. Seven-Page letter, 1969.

K = And it doesn't appear that the FBI is going to catch us any time soon. New York Times letter, 1995.


Z = 2 cops pulled a goof. Seven-Page letter, 1969.

K = The FBI is a joke. New York Times letter, 1995.


Z = As of yet I have left no fingerprints behind me contrary to what the police say. Seven-Page Letter, 1969.

K = Contrary to what the FBI has suggested, our bombing at the California Forestry Association was in no way inspired by the Oklahoma City bombing. New York Times Letter, 1995.


Z = This is the murderer of the 2 teenagers last Christmass ... July 31, 1969 Letter (Chronicle).
This is the Zodiac speaking. Numerous correspondences, 1969 through 1971.

K = This is a message from the terrorist group FC. New York Times Letter, April 24, 1995.
This is a message from FC. Tom Tyler Letter, June 30, 1995.


Z = I promised to punish them if they did not comply, by anilating a full School Buss. But now school is out for the summer, so I punished them in another way. Mt. Diablo Letter, 1970.

K = The people who are pushing all this growth and progress garbage deserve to be severely punished. New York Times Letter, 1995.


Z = By the way it could be rather messy if you try to bluff me. Seven-Page Letter, 1969.

K = A special case of Theorem (b) was proved (in effect) in [6, proof of Theorem 6] by means of a rather messy lemma. T.J. Kaczynski. Boundary Functions and Sets of Curvilinear Convergence for Continuous Functions. Transactions of the American Mathematical Society, Vol. 141 (Jul., 1969), 107-125, p. 124.

Z = [Called violent movie]"deplorable".

K = [Called bombing in OKC]"deplorable".


A HANDWRITING COMPARISON - ZODIAC AND KACZYNSKI







OVERVIEW OF BASIC FACTS SUGGESTING CONNECTION BETWEEN KACZYNSKI AND THE ZODIAC KILLER


* Kacsynski lived in the SF Bay area during the time of most of the confirmed Zodiac murders.

* Kaczynski's attorney said he could not provide any alibi dates for Zodiac murder and mailing dates, starting with Bates in 1966 and going to the 1974 letters, and also including the Santa Barbara murders in 1963 and the Swindle murders in 1964.

* Both Zodiac and Kaczynski were ruthless killers, highly intelligent and interested in and expert at bombs and codes.

* Both made references to opera, literature and Norse myths.

* Both demanded their words be published on the front pages of newspapers on penalty of death for innocents if not done.

* Both threatened to bomb mass transit.

* Both left drawings of crossed lines inside circles at crime scenes.

* Both used crossed lines inside circles as signatures.

* Both sent taunting messages to police and victims.

* Both usually used excessive postage, often double postage.

* Both wrote checkmark "r" 's, three stroke "k" 's, five stroke "m" 's and had many other handwriting matches.

* Both commented on the bounty put on their head.

* Both were filled with hatred and a desire for revenge against society.

* Both owned and used Winchester Western .22 Super X ammo.

* Both had guns with flashlights attached to the barrel.

* Kaczynski shot a miner with a rifle - Zodiac threatened to shoot school kids on a bus with a rifle


* Both had an unusual walk - Officer Fouke said the man he saw at the Stine crime scene walked with a "lumbering gait...a semi-limp", a girl at Lake Berryessa observed that a man watching them who may have been the Zodiac "favored one leg over the other", and David Kaczynski said his brother Ted was "noticably pigeon-toed" and that it "affected the way he walked".

* Both had knowledge of Deer Lodge, Montana.

* Zodiac taunted police, hinted he shot SFPD Officer Radetich and most importantly attacked and killed couples in known love making spots; Kaczynski recorded a desire in his journal to kill "police", "rowdy college students", "promiscuous" women and men and "noisy" love making "couples" in September of 1966.

THE POSSIBLE CONNECTION BETWEEN THE 1963 SANTA BARBARA BEACH MURDERS OF DOMINGOS AND EDWARDS AND THE ZODIAC KILLER

There are many similarities between the Santa Barbara beach murders of Domingos and Edwards in June 1963 and the Zodiac Killer attack at Lake Berryessa in September 1969.

* In both murders we have as victims a male - female couple on a blanket by the water

* In both the attacker has a gun, knife and pre-cut rope

* In both the attacker orders female to tie male, then binds them both.

* And like the Zodiac Killer attack on 12/20/68 at Lake Herman Road, a victim is shot in the back while running away.

* Also the exact same ammo was used at Santa Barbara 1963 and Zodiac attack on Lake Herman Road on 12/20/68 - .22 Winchester Western Super X, six right hand twists and grooves, indicating the same model of gun was used, and perhaps even the exact same weapon.

Below is a sketch of the 1963 Santa Barbara beach murders suspect "Sandy" and two pictures of the young Ted Kaczynski, followed by a picture of Ted Kaczynski in Berkeley 1968 and the SF 1969 Zodiac sketch with no glasses.









Two Photographs of Bearded Ted Kaczynski vs. Sketch of Suspect in Murder of Sacramento Nurse Judith Hakari.

Hakari is considered a probable victim of the Zodiac, and police thought her killer also probably murdered Sacramento resident Nancy Bennallack (in a ONS like home invasion attack) and Nevada resident Donna Lass, both also regarded as probable Zodiac victims.

The day after Bennallack was killed, but before it hit the newspapers, the Zodiac sent a Halloween Card to the SF Chronicle claiming a new 14th victim.

And the Zodiac sent in a postcard strongly suggesting he killed Lass.

The bearded Ted Kaczynski bears an obvious strong similarity to the bearded suspect in these probable Zodiac murders.

The one man at the scene of the Riverside campus library the night of the murder of Cheri Jo Bates on October 30, 1966, who could not be accounted for or found, was a bearded young man.


KACZYNSKI INTEREST IN CROSSED LINES INSIDE CIRCLES



Just like the zodiac, Kaczynski used crossed lines inside circles as a signature and drew crossed lines inside a circle at a crime scene.

Kaczynski had a life long interest in, almost obsession with, crossed lines inside circles.

1. He signed a yearbook with his "mark" - crossed lines inside a circle.

2. He spent several years of graduate study and his PHD dissertation on the boundary functions of circles, in particular dealing with the unit circle, which looks like the Zodiac symbol.

3. At the campus of a Unabomber target, he spraypainted the Yggdrasil symbol, also known as the Algiz Rune, along with the letters "FC" and "Anarchy". The Anglo-Saxon translation of the Algiz Rune is "Z"! It consists of, once again, crossed lines inside a circle. The Yggdrasil is the World Tree, but it also stands for "tree of terror; gallows", and the Algiz Rune also means to "wound severely; to mark with blood."









And a close up on his signature with the crossed lines inside a circle.





Close up on Unit Circle, Zodiac Symbol and Unabomber Symbols




Last edited by AK Wilks on Mon Jun 14, 2010 3:17 pm; edited 1 time in total
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PostSubject: Re: Reasons why your "Other Suspect & POI" is Z or should be taken seriously   Mon Jun 14, 2010 2:55 pm

The handwriting comparisons are kinda scary here!!! affraid
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PostSubject: Re: Reasons why your "Other Suspect & POI" is Z or should be taken seriously   Mon Jun 14, 2010 3:13 pm

I read Doug's book about TK. I have to admit, when they first caught him I thought of Zodiac right away. My family laughed at me. Then, he became a suspect. His handwriting is truly the most intriguing as it is a very close to Z's imo.

Great break-down guys!
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PostSubject: Re: Reasons why your "Other Suspect & POI" is Z or should be taken seriously   Mon Jun 14, 2010 3:31 pm

Yes, the handwriting comparisons with TK and Z are excellent. But the physical data on him compared with Z don't match. I've heard the rebuttals from Doug Oswell, but I don't find it compelling. Oh well...

Here's the photo of the Minutemen terror sign from 1968 in Arizona:



Here is an interesting 1965 MinutemanBulletin. Does it appear that there is a flashlight above the rifle on page 2?





HERE IS AN UNCONFIRMED Z LETTER FROM 1971:





COMPARE THE CODE WITH MINUTEMEN CODE FROM FBI DOCUMENT:

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PostSubject: Re: Reasons why your "Other Suspect & POI" is Z or should be taken seriously   Mon Jun 14, 2010 3:33 pm

Here is the label from Minutemen Survival Tabs (DePugh, the leader invented them in 1964 and the label remains the same as it was in the 1960s).

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PostSubject: Re: Reasons why your "Other Suspect & POI" is Z or should be taken seriously   Mon Jun 14, 2010 4:32 pm

My POI can be placed at the scene of the Lake Herman Rd murders during the small 4-7 minute window AFTER the victims were last seen alive, and BEFORE the bodies were found. Actually, he is the ONLY person that can be placed there with 100% certainty. And for all these years, police have assumed he was telling the truth about what he saw.

Inconsistencies:

*In his first statement to police on 12/21/68, he stated he saw a car (Zodiac's) parked about 10 feet away from Faraday's, and that this was at aprox 11:20pm
Police would later indicate that this time was actually 11:14pm aprox, which would be only a minute before Stella Borges finding the bodies.

* In his second statement to police on 12/24/68, my POI now stated that Zodiac's car was now 3-4 feet away from Faraday's car, NOT 10 feet apart as he originally stated.
Even more interesting, was the fact that in his second statement to police, he now stated that about a mile beyond where he observed Faraday's car, he heard what he thought was a shot. How does he suddenly mention that now 3 days later, but didnt think to mention that the next morning?

* Although he was there at the scene about a minute before Borges found the bodies, he said he saw NO BODIES OR PEOPLE, only Zodiacs car. Yet a minute later, Borges came along and saw the bodies (one almost laying in her path), but she saw no other Zodiac car. Could Z have shot tem after my POI went by, and escpaed undetected within a minute later when Borges found the bodies?

* My POI handed in multiple guns for testing to be comparred against Zodiac's weapon. It proves that he used/owned multiple guns, which was consistent with Zodiac

* My POI was 39 at the time of the Stine murder. The amended Zodiac sketch put Zodiac at between 35 & 45 years old.

*My POI's cursive writing has some similarities to Xmas card cursive writing sent to the sister of Donna Lass

*My POI was checked out(to some extent) after the LHR murders. Yet he was mentioned again in the BRS police report. Its fair to say he felt he may be suspected by police. That could be the reason that Zodiac didnt write to police taking credit for LHR until 8 months later, after the BRS attack. He may have wanted to wait until he felt he was in the clear. In all other Zodiac cases, he wrote pretty quickly afterwards taking credit. So why the delay of 8 months after LHR?

* My POI had roots in Vallejo, and graduated from HS there in 1950. I lost track of him until he bought property in Vallejo in mid 1968, less than 6 months before the murders started. Where was he in between graduation, and the start of the Zodiac murders? Riverside area? (Havent determined that yet)

*This man worked the graveyard shift, and would have a reason for driving around during those hours. The first two confirmed Zodiac attacks happened in the Vallejo area during the 11pm-12am hour.

I AM NOT GOING TO NAME THIS MAN, ALTHOUGH MANY PEOPLE KNOW WHO HE IS. I AM NOT CALLING HIM ZODIAC, ONLY STATING THAT HE SHOULD HAVE BEEN LOOKED AT CLOSER,AFTER HIS MULTIPLE INCONSISTENCIES IN HIS REPORTS TO POLICE.
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PostSubject: Re: Reasons why your "Other Suspect & POI" is Z or should be taken seriously   Mon Jun 14, 2010 6:48 pm

Could you show us the handwriting and whatever other evidence you have that can be observed, e.g., a photo? Thanks.
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PostSubject: Re: Reasons why your "Other Suspect & POI" is Z or should be taken seriously   Mon Jun 14, 2010 7:44 pm

rand wrote:
Could you show us the handwriting and whatever other evidence you have that can be observed, e.g., a photo? Thanks.

Sure, here it is:
http://zodiackillersite.forummotion.com/donna-lass-9-6-70-f22/writing-comparison-to-lass-xmas-card-t154.htm
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PostSubject: Re: Reasons why your "Other Suspect & POI" is Z or should be taken seriously   Mon Jun 14, 2010 9:00 pm

Thanks, Morf.

More reasons to consider TH a good suspect:

DAYS OF THE MURDERS: SIGNIFICANCE TO MM AND TH

December 20: LHR. 4 years to the day that TH shot out the tires of the woman's car while she was in the car. The day prior to TH's first son's, Troy's, 13th birthday.

July 4th: Blue Rock Springs murder (Darlene Ferrin). Independence Day.

Sept 27th: Lake Berryessa murder. Samuel Adams was born on Sept. 27, 1722. Paul Revere's ride was to warn Adams and Hancock.

"Although Gage had evidently decided against seizing Adams and Hancock, Patriots initially believed otherwise. From Boston, Joseph Warren dispatched Paul Revere to warn the two that British troops were on the move and might attempt to arrest them. As Hancock and Adams made their escape, the first shots of the war began at Lexington and Concord. Soon after the battle, Gage issued a proclamation granting a general pardon to all who would "lay down their arms, and return to the duties of peaceable subjects"—with the exceptions of Hancock and Samuel Adams. Singling out Hancock and Adams in this manner only added to their renown among Patriots, and, according to Patriot historian Mercy Otis Warren, perhaps exaggerated the importance of the two men."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Samuel_Adams


Oct. 11th: Stine murdered. It was Columbus Day weekend and the murder happened at Washington and Cherry.
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PostSubject: Re: Reasons why your "Other Suspect & POI" is Z or should be taken seriously   Tue Jun 15, 2010 2:43 am

Morph remember as well about the message :Ask the Vallejo cop about (the gunsight), I have alway's felt that this indicated that the Zodiac must have had a conversation with a member of VPD about sights. Who but someone handing in a weapon or perhaps someone close to a Vallejo cop perhaps a shooting buddy but I lean more towards someone that handed in a weapon would make that statement. As far as I can see (Unless he was trying to set someone up) there were not all that many people that would have had weapons seized or handed them in before that letter arrived. If the Zodiac is as demented as I think he is and that statement is true then we look at who handed over weapons. Perhaps the cop in question will not even recall the conversation.

They would have checked fingerprints possibly at the first crime scene I doubt they checked palms (my bug bear is the non checking of palm prints). If no one was arrested from the first crime scene (And Lunblad believed it was a seperate killer) I doubt they looked at them once the fingerprints didn't match. I think the Zodiac slipped right through the net, all he does in his letters is taunt the police, he is cleverer than they are, they could have caught me etc. He taunts them because I believe they had him and didn't have enough evidence, or didn't suspect him because he co operated. I think he is within the police reports, I have no doubt about it IMO.
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PostSubject: Re: Reasons why your "Other Suspect & POI" is Z or should be taken seriously   Tue Jun 15, 2010 5:41 am

It's a tantalizing suggestion, Solar. But I also think it's just as likely that he forgot to write the 's' in 'cops'. Wink
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PostSubject: Re: Reasons why your "Other Suspect & POI" is Z or should be taken seriously   Tue Jun 15, 2010 7:00 am

Also a chance he meant a publicized investigator on the case (Lundblad?), but yes, tantalizing none the less.
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PostSubject: Re: Reasons why your "Other Suspect & POI" is Z or should be taken seriously   Tue Jun 15, 2010 7:55 am

Solar Pons wrote:
Morph remember as well about the message :Ask the Vallejo cop about (the gunsight), I have alway's felt that this indicated that the Zodiac must have had a conversation with a member of VPD about sights. Who but someone handing in a weapon or perhaps someone close to a Vallejo cop perhaps a shooting buddy but I lean more towards someone that handed in a weapon would make that statement. As far as I can see (Unless he was trying to set someone up) there were not all that many people that would have had weapons seized or handed them in before that letter arrived. If the Zodiac is as demented as I think he is and that statement is true then we look at who handed over weapons. Perhaps the cop in question will not even recall the conversation.

They would have checked fingerprints possibly at the first crime scene I doubt they checked palms (my bug bear is the non checking of palm prints). If no one was arrested from the first crime scene (And Lunblad believed it was a seperate killer) I doubt they looked at them once the fingerprints didn't match. I think the Zodiac slipped right through the net, all he does in his letters is taunt the police, he is cleverer than they are, they could have caught me etc. He taunts them because I believe they had him and didn't have enough evidence, or didn't suspect him because he co operated. I think he is within the police reports, I have no doubt about it IMO.


Maybe Zodiac also told Nancy Slover that he used a "electric gun sight" when he in his phonecall July 5th, told her " They were shot with a nine millimeter Luger" but for som reason LE decided to withheld that piece of information.
That Zodiac for som reason belived he talked to a "cop" when he talked to Slover?
And then in his Nov 8th, 1969 letter, Zodiac refered to that conversation?


BRS murder:
Doctors pronounced Darlene dead on arrival at the local hospital at 12:38 pm.
Two minutes later, Vallejo Police Department dispatcher Nancy Slover answered a telephone call that had been placed from a payphone just blocks from the station. The caller spoke in a low, monotone voice, as if he were reading from a prepared script.

"I want to report a murder. If you will go one mile east on Columbus Parkway you will find kids in a brown car. They were shot with a nine millimeter Luger. I also killed those kids last year. Goodbye."
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PostSubject: Re: Reasons why your "Other Suspect & POI" is Z or should be taken seriously   Tue Jun 15, 2010 8:22 am

Solar Pons wrote:
Morph remember as well about the message :Ask the Vallejo cop about (the gunsight), I have alway's felt that this indicated that the Zodiac must have had a conversation with a member of VPD about sights. Who but someone handing in a weapon or perhaps someone close to a Vallejo cop perhaps a shooting buddy but I lean more towards someone that handed in a weapon would make that statement. As far as I can see (Unless he was trying to set someone up) there were not all that many people that would have had weapons seized or handed them in before that letter arrived. If the Zodiac is as demented as I think he is and that statement is true then we look at who handed over weapons. Perhaps the cop in question will not even recall the conversation.

They would have checked fingerprints possibly at the first crime scene I doubt they checked palms (my bug bear is the non checking of palm prints). If no one was arrested from the first crime scene (And Lunblad believed it was a seperate killer) I doubt they looked at them once the fingerprints didn't match. I think the Zodiac slipped right through the net, all he does in his letters is taunt the police, he is cleverer than they are, they could have caught me etc. He taunts them because I believe they had him and didn't have enough evidence, or didn't suspect him because he co operated. I think he is within the police reports, I have no doubt about it IMO.

Some interesting thoughts Solar. As far as my POI, in the BRS reports where he shows up again, it mentions that police have "two cursive signatures" from him. I assume these are from the two signatures on the statements he gave to police. Police evidentally compared these two cursive signatures to Zodiac's writing, and may have ruled my POI out based on that. If that is true, that is a big-time error on their part. I checked with 3 different writing experts, and all of them said- "YOU CANT ACCURATELY COMPARE A PERSON'S CURSIVE WRITING TO THEIR PRINTED WRITING". One of them told me, "if you find a writing expert who claims they can match up cursive vs. printed writing, run the other way, because they just want your money"

Below is a page from the BRS reports that clearly shows that my POI's cursive signatures were compared to that of Zodiac's printed writing:


I asked the Vallejo PD, the following questions:

1- Was this POI's printed writing ever compared to Zodiac's printed writing?
2- Was this POI's fingerprints or palm prints ever compared to Zodiac?

Their reply statement was " WE NEVER CONSIDERED HIM A SUSPECT IN THIS CASE". That to me is truly disturbing. A man who places himself on the scene on LHR in between the time F&J were last seen alive, and a few minutes later when their bodies were found, Who also has no witness to verify his account, A man who had MULTIPLE INCONSISTENCIES in his two reports to police...should have been looked at closer...in my opinion.

Below I will share something that I have only shared with a few people. Its not a piece of info that is a big secret, I just think it has been overlooked somehow, and I am very surprised that it was not ever talked about more.

Take a look at the guns turned into police by my POI in the Benicia police report:

No obviously, if my POI was Zodiac, he wouldnt turn in the murder weapon. And of course, the two weapons he truned in were ruled out as the murder weapon. But pay close attention to the REMINGTON 550-1, a .22 Rifle.

Why is it of interest? Take a look at this memo, courtesy of Howard's great site at:
http://thezodiacmansonconnection.com/victim_sd_honeymoon.html



The memo above was sent to Vallejo PD, from San Diego PD. SDPD was reaching out, apparently, to other areas of CA in which couples were murdered wit no apparent motive. They were seeking cluse in their 1964 case of Johnny & Joyce Swindle, two young honeymooners, killed while strolling on a beach one moonlit night. They were both shot repeatedly with a REMINGTON 550-1 rifle. Many people have noted the similarities here to Berryessa, and to Domingos/Edwards case.

What I am worried about is this scenario- Solano County Sheriffs dept, and Vallejo PD, are on two separate pages, not sharing info, etc. As a matter of fact, in December 1968 (the date of the memo from San Diego), the LHR crime was being handled by SOLANO COUNTY SHERIFFS DEPT, and Vallejo probably wasnt involved. So if Vallejo got a memo in December 1968 from San Diego, was it passed on to Solano County Sheriffs? Because Solano County would have handled the ballistics report on the weapons turned in by my POI. Maybe the REMINGTON 550-1 would have jumped off the page at them (like it did at me), since they had just tested my POI's for ballistics.

I dont want to make it sound as if there was only a handful of these Remington 550-1 rifles made, in fact there were like 700,000. But the fact is, my POI did own one, which was the same model gun used to kill the Swindles. The Swindles murder has some pretty noticeable Zodiac overtones, and my POI was at the scene of a Zodiac crime. He deserved (deserves) a closer look by police in my opinion.

Lastly, regarding the cursive writing from my POI, when compared to the xmas card sent to the Sister of Donna Lass, there are some similarities. Here is a comparison of the Lass writing compared to my POI's writing(keep in mind, my POI's writing was from this year, and the Lass xmas card writing was from the 1970's):

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PostSubject: Re: Reasons why your "Other Suspect & POI" is Z or should be taken seriously   Tue Jun 15, 2010 8:28 am

My theory regarding: "Ask the Vallejo cop about my electric gunsight." with respect to Troy Houghton.



Raithby Husted, the kid who testified against DePugh and Houghton in the 1966 trial, feared for his life and wanted to make amends with the Minutemen afterward. He lived in San Bruno, CA, right near the SF airport. He seems to be related to James Husted, the Vallejo Lt who championed ALA as the prime Z suspect. So there may very well have been a link between Houghton and the Vallejo PD. Husted might be the cop Z is referring to in the "Ask the Vallejo cop about my electric gunsight."


RAITHBY ROOSEVELT HUSTED in 1961

Here's what the Foreigner found about this possible connection:

I would say that its a possibility.

Husted is a rare last name, and in Raithby Husted´s mothers obit it is stated:

"She lived near San Francisco, California for many years."

Her is the mothers obit:

CARROL G. HUSTED
Nov. 11, 1919-May 16, 2006 CARROL G. HUSTED, 86, formerly of Lebanon, Oregon, died on Tuesday May 16, 2006 in Vancouver, Washington. Carrol was born November 11, 1919 in Glasgow, Montana, the daughter of Charles and Grace (Martin) Roosevelt. She lived in North Dakota during her childhood. She married Edgar Husted in Portland, Oregon on May 19, 1942. She lived near San Francisco, California for many years. She moved to Lebanon in 1980 where she resided until 2002.
She was preceded in death by her husband, Edgar on August 22, 2002.
She was also preceded in death by a brother, Allen Roosevelt, and sisters, Helen Larson and Ruth Fouts.
She is survived by a daughter, Anne Tuttle of Vancouver, Washington; a son, Raithby Husted of Burleson, Texas; sister, Gertrude Siemsen of Tennessee; nine grandchildren, 19 great-grandchildren and numerous nieces and nephews. A graveside service will be held on Monday, May 22, 2006, 11:00a.m., at the Jefferson City Cemetery. A Memorial Service will be held on Tuesday, May 23, 2006, 2:00p.m., at the Vancouver Seventh-day Adventist Church. To leave an online condolence to the family go to www.hustonjost.com. The family requests that memorials be sent to the Adventist Disaster Relief Agency, c/o Huston-Jost Funeral home, 86 W. Grant St. Lebanon, OR 97355.
Published in the Columbian on 05/20/2006



And in 1957+1961 Raithby Husted attened Mountain View Academy :

http://www.classmates.com/directory/school/Mountain%20View%20Academy_2.jsp?org=11162

Mountain View Academy, Mountain view, CA

Raithby Husted 1957-1961



In 1969 Raithby R Husted married in Santa Cruz, CA:

California Marriage Index, 1960-1985
about Raithby R Husted
Name: Raithby R Husted
Age: 25
Est. Birth: abt 1944
Spouse Name: Marilyn J Downing
Spouse Age: 26
Date: 9 Mar 1969
Location: Santa Cruz

His father had an adress in San mateo in 1975:

fathers address in 1975 San Mateo:
Edgar R. Husted
187 Linden Ave San Mateo
( Atherton, CA 94027)


-----

Here is info concerning the Vallejo Lt. Jim Husted you refered to:



Now, there was/is a James Husted who divorced a woman in Solano County in 1974, re married in Solano County in May 1976, Divorced in Solano in 1982, remarried in Napa in 1984 (I cant be sure this is the Lt you are refering to but IMO the possibility is pretty high it is him:.

California Marriage Index, 1960-1985
about James J Husted
Name: James J Husted
Age: 36
Est. Birth: abt 1940
Spouse Name: Joana M Feldman
Spouse Age: 35
Date: 8 May 1976
Location: Solano

James Husted has several connection to Oregon just like the Raithby R Husted family:


HUSTED, JAMES JOHN (Age 70)

Associated names:

HUSTED, JAMES A

Possible Employment / Business Associations:

AFFORDABLE GEMS AND JEWELRY
EAGLE POINT RANCH, INC
GALLERY4COLLECTORS
JJH AND ASSOCIATES
JJH AND ASSOCIATES
THE OREGON PROPERTY CONNECTION, INC

MEDFORD, OR
CENTRAL POINT, OR
TALENT, OR
NAPA, CA
BOWMAN, CA
ASHLAND, OR Possible Relatives:

HUSTED, MARILYN LJENSEN (Age 54)
HUSTED, MARILYN L

Possible Roommates / Associates:

DYER, RICHARD R (Age 46)
WIDMER, JAMES ROYCE (Age 62)
DYERFOWLER, CINDRA (Age 43)
WIDMER, NANCY LEE (Age 61)
AYALA, LAZARO D (Age 43)
ROSEBERRY, BARBARA (Age 86)
ROSEBERRY, LYNN MATTHIAS (Age 81)
CARLSON, GAIL LYNN (Age 63)
WIDMER, MINDY SUE (Age 37)

James Husted moved to Napa, Ca, in mid 80´s a presume and I belive still lives there
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PostSubject: Re: Reasons why your "Other Suspect & POI" is Z or should be taken seriously   Tue Jun 15, 2010 12:33 pm

Nacht every possibillity that he forgot the s but Suspect I think he did it on purpose Suspect .

That letter came in after Stine and they looked/ spoke to a lot of guys, the cop he spoke to may not even remember the conversation or could have phoned the info in. So yes his talking to Slover may well be it, just that he didn't mention the site. Speaking of which the Luger that he said he used. How popular were luger's over say an American made gun. Would anyone on a gun range have commented say if someone brought out a Luger, that kind of thing.
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PostSubject: Re: Reasons why your "Other Suspect & POI" is Z or should be taken seriously   Tue Jun 15, 2010 12:37 pm

I dunno, my grandfather (in the Midwestern US) and several guys he worked with had Lugers...

They were often taken by Allied soldiers during the World Wars...

At the gun range they would have thought it was perhaps 'neat' that he had one, but people would not have raised eyebrows or freaked out about it, I don't think...
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PostSubject: Re: Reasons why your "Other Suspect & POI" is Z or should be taken seriously   Tue Jun 15, 2010 12:43 pm

Cheers Zab kind of wondered about that as I has read it was mostly American soldier's that would bring them over to the States, I wondered how common they would be, even Ammo wise.
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PostSubject: Re: Reasons why your "Other Suspect & POI" is Z or should be taken seriously   Tue Jun 15, 2010 12:51 pm

I have no idea how they got ammo for them...LOL....but, my grandfather worked in a foundry as did many of his friends....maybe they were able to modify or use other ammo; I have no idea; I was just a kid then, and all I know is that my grandparents had a safe in the master bedroom where he kept the thing... affraid

(I do know that he threatened some teenagers with it who had vandalized his prized vegetable garden....You didn't mess with my grandpa...He looked like an Armenian version of the Godfather....and he always wore an ironed white dress shirt and a hat even when he was gardening...LOL ...I miss him....)
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PostSubject: Murderer/Fugitive Hides out in Plain Sight for 40 years   Tue Jun 15, 2010 2:34 pm

For those who don't like TH as a suspect because they can't believe that he would just disappear for 40 years (even though he said he would go underground and he had tons of aliases and DePugh ordered all MM members to have several fake IDs, which they handed out to their members regularly), READ THIS STORY THAT JUST CAME OVER THE WIRES:

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/us_wedding_chapel_fugitive
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