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Seagull
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PostSubject: Re: SONOMA COUNTY   Wed Jun 01, 2011 11:07 am

I have updated Kim Allen's page at my site. Recently I spoke with a fellow named John Bly who was one of the people that found Kim Allen's body. I have posted what I learned from the conversation.

Also, Tom Voigt very kindly gave me a three page report relating to Kim's murder. It appears to have been compiled when Ted Bundy became a suspect in those murders.

The update was added to the bottom of the page.

http://www.santarosahitchhikermurders.com/allen.html

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tahoe27
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PostSubject: Re: SONOMA COUNTY   Wed Jun 01, 2011 12:54 pm

Thanks Seagull! Good stuff.
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PostSubject: Re: SONOMA COUNTY   Wed Jun 01, 2011 1:14 pm

Thanks Seagull, keep the updates coming! Very Happy
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PostSubject: Re: SONOMA COUNTY   Wed Jun 01, 2011 1:14 pm

tahoe27 wrote:
Thanks Seagull! Good stuff.

Yeah. I agree! I read it a couple times as it was interesting. Sounds like she was a darling girl, that part is so sad.
Mill Valley & Larkspur Area...makes me think of where Naso was at one point.
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PostSubject: Re: SONOMA COUNTY   Wed Jun 01, 2011 4:34 pm

I'm reading the bit about the seminal fluid that was discovered, Seagull. In light of that finding, shouldn't it be fairly easy to find out if Fred Manalli murdered Kim?

Also, you mention that DNA may have been found on some of the other victims, too. I imagine a comparison between the samples would conclusively reveal if those crimes were one man's work, no...?
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Seagull
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PostSubject: Re: SONOMA COUNTY   Wed Jun 01, 2011 5:07 pm

Yes, Nacht I would think that if the semen was collected and properly stored from Kim Allen and a DNA profile was worked up they should be able to match it or not to Manalli. The same goes for matching the semen DNA to the other victims. I know that DNA was obtained from these murders but I do not know which victims it was obtained from or if it is more than one victim.

According to Manalli's death certificate he was buried not cremated, he would need to be exhumed to get a DNA sample, I suppose. He had no children, his parents are dead. He did have a sister and brother but I do not know if either are still living.
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PostSubject: Re: SONOMA COUNTY   Wed Jun 01, 2011 6:19 pm

For once, a suspect who wasn't cremated. There may be hope in that angle yet.

Mea culpa if you've covered this topic before, but was Manalli considered a POI for any of the other murders? I suppose that would hinge a lot on when he died, but I can't remember the exact date...
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PostSubject: Re: SONOMA COUNTY   Wed Jun 01, 2011 6:48 pm

Manalli died August 25, 1976 so yes he could have been responsible for other murders, whether or not he was investigated for any others, I do not know. Logic would dictate that LE would have at least looked him over for that possibility.

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morf13
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PostSubject: Re: SONOMA COUNTY   Thu Jun 02, 2011 1:30 pm

Seagull wrote:
Manalli died August 25, 1976 so yes he could have been responsible for other murders, whether or not he was investigated for any others, I do not know. Logic would dictate that LE would have at least looked him over for that possibility.


I am sorry, I have been on vacation this week, and my mind is mush Very Happy Was Manalli the guy that some people think was possibly Zodiac, and had been killed in an auto accident? He was a teacher of some sort???
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PostSubject: Re: SONOMA COUNTY   Thu Jun 02, 2011 1:44 pm

morf13 wrote:
Seagull wrote:
Manalli died August 25, 1976 so yes he could have been responsible for other murders, whether or not he was investigated for any others, I do not know. Logic would dictate that LE would have at least looked him over for that possibility.


I am sorry, I have been on vacation this week, and my mind is mush Very Happy Was Manalli the guy that some people think was possibly Zodiac, and had been killed in an auto accident? He was a teacher of some sort???

Found a link here to discussion over at ZKF.com- http://www.zodiackillerfacts.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=35&t=556
How did this guy become a suspect? There seems to be very little available about him.


Last edited by morf13 on Thu Jun 02, 2011 1:48 pm; edited 1 time in total
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PostSubject: Re: SONOMA COUNTY   Thu Jun 02, 2011 1:46 pm

Manalli was considered a very strong suspect in the murder of Kim Allen due to alleged drawings found in his home after his death from a car accident. It was his former wife and a friend who found the drawings while cleaning out his home after he died and they turned the drawings over to the sheriff's department. I have been told by a source that an item of Kim's was also found in his home. That would make sense as I'm not so sure how Manalli's ex-wife could have known that any drawings depicted Kim in particular without something else to go on. Since I haven't been able to verify that bit of info from a separate source I can not say with absolute certainty that what I was told is true.

I suppose that Manalli was looked at by online researchers as being Zodiac by extension of the theory that Zodiac committed the Sonoma County murders. Personally I do not believe that Manalli was the Zodiac.

I do have a physical description of Manalli and a handwriting sample which I can post if you are interested.
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PostSubject: Re: SONOMA COUNTY   Thu Jun 02, 2011 1:52 pm

Seagull wrote:
I do have a physical description of Manalli and a handwriting sample which I can post if you are interested.
Please do, thanks. If it is the cursive sample, I think I already saw it at Chris Y's site.

By the way, anyone know what schools in southern CA this guy taught at, and were they in San Bernardino, Riverside, or Santa Barbara areas?
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PostSubject: Re: SONOMA COUNTY   Thu Jun 02, 2011 1:58 pm

I have researched this guy extensively and was able to obtain copies of 160+ pages of correspondence of his dating from 1958 until the time he died in 1976. In these letters he does talk about his various employment and there is absolutely no mention of his having worked in Southern California or Napa for that matter.
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PostSubject: Re: SONOMA COUNTY   Thu Jun 02, 2011 2:03 pm

Seagull wrote:
I have researched this guy extensively and was able to obtain copies of 160+ pages of correspondence of his dating from 1958 until the time he died in 1976. In these letters he does talk about his various employment and there is absolutely no mention of his having worked in Southern California or Napa for that matter.

Thanks for that info, hope you have some printing samples of his. If all you have is cursive, there is limited cursive sampels to compare against, none of it confirmed. You may compare the cursive to the xmas card sent to Lass' sister, and to the EQUINOX letter.
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PostSubject: Re: SONOMA COUNTY   Thu Jun 02, 2011 2:12 pm

Seagull, you know more about this guy than anybody, what are your overall thoughts?

If you think he merits further research, a couple suggestions:

1- Thru the FOI act, Obtain his military records thru freedom of information act, since he is dead, and you have his ss#, this should be no problem.
2- Thru the FOI act, obtain his FBI file, again, since he id dead and you have his ss#, this should be no problem
3- If you know what schools he attended, or taught at, try and obtain a yearbook photo.

One last thing, go to the website www.pipl.com and do a search for FREDERIC MANALLI, and leave the state blank. Only one result shows up in the entire USA. It is for a short story written in 1963 called "The Blakentia Sextet". The story was written by a MANALLI, possibly Frederic. I think it was Frederic S. Manalli. I couldnt find anything about that short story, regarding details and such.

EDIT: http://books.google.com/books?id=NyKKNwAACAAJ&dq=The+Blakentia+Sextet&hl=en&ei=tdPnTfmlJITy0gHE_bWACw&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=1&ved=0CCoQ6AEwAA
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PostSubject: Re: SONOMA COUNTY   Thu Jun 02, 2011 2:25 pm

Seagull, quick question, was Manalli divorced in San fran in December, 1973? Or is that a different Frederic Manalli in San Fran altogether? I was curious since he lived in Sonoma for several years.
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PostSubject: Re: SONOMA COUNTY   Thu Jun 02, 2011 2:38 pm

Seems like the guy had at least a little interest in plays and mysteries...



Last edited by morf13 on Sat Jun 09, 2012 8:37 pm; edited 2 times in total
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PostSubject: Re: SONOMA COUNTY   Thu Jun 02, 2011 2:41 pm

Most of Manalli's letters are typed and there was only one page which has anything with just printing on it. His typical handwriting is a little cursive and a little printing combined. This sample of printing was added at the end of a letter dated 2/24/62.



I have seen Manalli's DD214, military discharge document, it is on file at the Sonoma County Recorders office. It is in Book 2655 Page 249. The general public can view the document but can not purchase it. In order to do that you need to be a family member and have a notorized statement verifying your relationship.

Manalli was in the Army Reserves and was called to active duty Oct. 1957. He served active duty for 2 years. His reserve obligation expired Sept. 1963.

From the DD214 his physical discription was-

Hair- Brown
Eyes- Hazel
Height- 6'3"
Weight- 175

Blood Group- B
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PostSubject: Re: SONOMA COUNTY   Thu Jun 02, 2011 2:47 pm

Seagull wrote:
Most of Manalli's letters are typed and there was only one page which has anything with just printing on it. His typical handwriting is a little cursive and a little printing combined. This sample of printing was added at the end of a letter dated 2/24/62.



I have seen Manalli's DD214, military discharge document, it is on file at the Sonoma County Recorders office. It is in Book 2655 Page 249. The general public can view the document but can not purchase it. In order to do that you need to be a family member and have a notorized statement verifying your relationship.

Manalli was in the Army Reserves and was called to active duty Oct. 1957. He served active duty for 2 years. His reserve obligation expired Sept. 1963.

From the DD214 his physical discription was-

Hair- Brown
Eyes- Hazel
Height- 6'3"
Weight- 175

Blood Group- B

Seagull, that writing does NOT look UNLIKE Zodiac's. Shocked At least what I can see of it. Anyway to enlarge/enhance it?
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PostSubject: Re: SONOMA COUNTY   Thu Jun 02, 2011 2:49 pm



Some larger enhances samples would help.
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PostSubject: Re: SONOMA COUNTY   Thu Jun 02, 2011 2:56 pm

morf13 wrote:
Seagull, quick question, was Manalli divorced in San fran in December, 1973? Or is that a different Frederic Manalli in San Fran altogether? I was curious since he lived in Sonoma for several years.

It is the same Fred Manalli, his wife actually filed for divorce twice before finally having it finalized. The first time a divorce was filed was in Sonoma County Aug. 1970. She must have been living in San Francisco when she filed the second time because you need to live in the county where you have filed.

Manalli did go to San Francisco State College in the early '60's to get his masters degree in English Lit. He received his BA degree in his home state if Illinois. Manalli lived in the East Bay Area, San Leandro IIRC, when first moving to California. He later moved to San Francisco. Manalli among other things was employed as an English teacher to the cons at San Quentin Prison for about three years while completing his masters degree.

Manalli was teaching at Santa Rosa Junior College and living in Santa Rosa by 1964.
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PostSubject: Re: SONOMA COUNTY   Thu Jun 02, 2011 3:00 pm

Seagull wrote:
morf13 wrote:
Seagull, quick question, was Manalli divorced in San fran in December, 1973? Or is that a different Frederic Manalli in San Fran altogether? I was curious since he lived in Sonoma for several years.

It is the same Fred Manalli, his wife actually filed for divorce twice before finally having it finalized. The first time a divorce was filed was in Sonoma County Aug. 1970. She must have been living in San Francisco when she filed the second time because you need to live in the county where you have filed.

Manalli did go to San Francisco State College in the early '60's to get his masters degree in English Lit. He received his BA degree in his home state if Illinois. Manalli lived in the East Bay Area, San Leandro IIRC, when first moving to California. He later moved to San Francisco. Manalli among other things was employed as an English teacher to the cons at San Quentin Prison for about three years while completing his masters degree.

Manalli was teaching at Santa Rosa Junior College and living in Santa Rosa by 1964.

Have you ever seen any pics? Does he look at all like the Z sketch?
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PostSubject: Re: SONOMA COUNTY   Thu Jun 02, 2011 3:08 pm

morf13 wrote:
One last thing, go to the website www.pipl.com and do a search for FREDERIC MANALLI, and leave the state blank. Only one result shows up in the entire USA. It is for a short story written in 1963 called "The Blakentia Sextet". The story was written by a MANALLI, possibly Frederic. I think it was Frederic S. Manalli. I couldnt find anything about that short story, regarding details and such.
EDIT: http://books.google.com/books?id=NyKKNwAACAAJ&dq=The+Blakentia+Sextet&hl=en&ei=tdPnTfmlJITy0gHE_bWACw&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=1&ved=0CCoQ6AEwAA

Seagull, I saw you posted this a while back on Zkfacts:
"A writer and poet, Manalli taught classes at various times over the last ten years. He held a bachelors degree from the Unversity of Illinois and a masters degree from San Francisco State College.In 1972, he was awarded a National Endowment for the Arts writing Fellowship."

So there is a good chance, that this Manalli was the same author that wrote THE BLAKENTIA SEXTET in 1963. Have you ever heard of, or read it Seagull? I am curious to see what it is about.

Also, I found an article stating that Manalli resigned from the school in Illinois that he taught at at the end of the schoolyear in about June, 1961. Do you know if he immediately went to CA, and could he have been there for the Santa Barbara murders???

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PostSubject: Re: SONOMA COUNTY   Thu Jun 02, 2011 3:16 pm

You found something I did not know about! I will try to find what short story book it is published in and get a copy.
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PostSubject: Re: SONOMA COUNTY   Thu Jun 02, 2011 6:05 pm

Morf I'm not really having any luck finding that short story. I think that the reason you found it and I have never seen it is because you spelled his first name wrong! There is no E in the middle! 1963 was about the time he got his masters degree from SF State and I'm thinking that short story may have been a part of his masters thesis. I will contact SF State and see if they might have a copy of the story. Manalli entered SF State in the fall semester of 1960 so, yes , he was in California. In 1966, when Cheri Jo was killed, he was teaching at Santa Rosa Junior College. He also taught there in 1965.
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