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Eduard
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PostSubject: Re: Gaul and Sharp   Wed Dec 14, 2011 7:33 am

Hi Howard and others,

The Batman-Zodiac connection was a site which I created to researched a possible connection between Batman and Z. Some things I found out about (can't show you cause I can't posts pictures yet).

Examples from the Detective Comics of 1939 featuring the Batman

- Batman used clothesline to tie some of his victims up
- Batman shot a guy in his head from close (after that Batman did't shoot any longer, readers were shocked)
- Batman send anonymous letters to the police with phrases like Zodiac.
- Batman signed his letters with a batsymbol like the one of the "Bates Die" letters.
- Batman called the police to tell them the location of his "victims", he even began his phonecall with:"This is the Batman talking..."

A lot of similarities in only a few of batman's first comics in 1939, coincidence? Possible? Or maybe that year had some significance to Zodiac? I dunno....

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PostSubject: Re: Gaul and Sharp   Wed Dec 14, 2011 3:40 pm

The two black men mentioned by your source did NOT kill Gaul and Sharp!!!LT.Deemer and his men were very familiar with these two and Deemer himself (he was also a ploygrpph expert-was in Tate case for this reason-when he saw the victims Gaul and Sharp he said after he loked at the vicitms and later saw the reports-he was present-see autopsy report I have posted-'whoever did Tate did these kids')went to the prison to inteview the suspect and he told me no way whatsover was he involved. I will say this much.The detective responsible for bringing these two forward was an alcoholic Deemer knew well. When we found this detective years later he was retired and a bartender in a small lounge in L.A.(when we mentiond this to Deemer the first thing he said is he still drinking too much!) who still had the crime photos. We were able to get these color photos from him. That was good of him,but his case facts were skewed big time.

It was a motorcycle chain that was used on Gaul and Sharp-NOT a tire iron. I have the entire case reports.The witness made a large number of errors and for a good reason. These guys turn each other in as it were for legal help in their cases or what they may be charged with,etc.
The same in the Bates case.Their witnesses (all scumie types)all had reasons why they were providing info against BB. This is one of the reasons why the RS DA turned down the RSPD's evidence against BB not once but twice! It went to a Grand Jury twice. This is quite common. These types are known liars who try to save themselves even telling detectives what they want to hear.They are not that stupid. This is their world. The LA DA turned the case down. Not enough evidence,but what was submitted was inaccurate at crucial points. But that did not stop this detective from saying he solved the case. NOT!
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PostSubject: Re: Gaul and Sharp   Wed Dec 14, 2011 5:06 pm

Here are some of the statements made by James Green regarding his and Arthur Davis's involvement in Sharp and Gaul's murders. Personally I feel that the statements are a little short on detail and do not say anything that hadn't already been in the newspaper. Green did not come forward until six years after the crime. Also I have posted the letter written by the DA's office saying why they would not go forward and charge these two with the murders.





































The statement from James Green's wife-



The letter from the DA's office-







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morf13
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PostSubject: Re: Gaul and Sharp   Wed Dec 14, 2011 6:45 pm

Thanks for posting that stuff, will take a closer look

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PostSubject: Rampart reports   Wed Dec 14, 2011 8:45 pm

I had posted on these reports but it didn't go through!
These are true copies of the reports that were given to me several years ago.
Green's interview displays several erroneous statements. Here are just a few examples of case fact :Gaul was nude-earlier she was dressed differently than Green said;both persons were struck a few times with a motorcycle chain-not a tire iron(there is a chain-like doodle on the Z killer note found in Gaul's room; car was not the same and seen in the car that night were two white-not black men in front and the couple in the back-they had picked them up while hitching ;Sharp was carrying a manilla envelope with papers-Green didn't say anything about this-note det.asks him about this;witnesses heard Gaul crying out 'Jimmy Jimmy Jimmy'in the alley,etc,etc.
LT Deemer who knew the case as few did and was Lead investigator thought he was giving false statements and they did not line up with case facts most of which didn't make the news.
He seems to have taken basic facts found in the news as well as TV news and then filled in the rest with his fantasy tales.
When his wife was interviewed she denied Green ever saying what had happened that night. Deemer interviewed Art Davis Green's friend and he told us he was not involved from all that he learned. He didn't have good things to say about Lambert either. Deemer's chief suspect as well as the detectives working under him all believed Bruce Davis who lived down the hall from Gaul was involved.

Of interest there was a good sized reward for information leading to the arrest and conviction of the killer/s of Gaul and Sharp.There was real bad blood as they say between Green and Davis.

Gaul had been struck from behind in September'69. Someone was after her and Deemer believed it was Bruce Davis. Witnesses told L.T Deemer that Bruce was 'enraged' with Gaul.
The Z note found in her room said the author was going to kill her. She had to be taken to a hospital. I have copies of letters her BF wrote to her mentioning this event. All this stuff was very hard to acquire and track down,but I have tried to learn all I can about his terrible crime without leaving Z straight research aside.
Gaul and Sharp were killed during a full moon 11/21/69. Davis flew off to Great Britain on the 24th less than two days later! That's getting out of Dodge! This would be his third visit.The first was sometime before '66.
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Eduard
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PostSubject: Re: Gaul and Sharp   Thu Dec 15, 2011 2:34 pm

A possible Sharp/Gaul - Exorcist letter connection???



Sharp autopsy file - Exorcist letter symbol
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PostSubject: Ed came through again? Looks fascinanting that I can say   Thu Dec 15, 2011 2:48 pm

ED!
Just Brilliant! As usual.

It does say in the autopsy report on my site that the knife wounds 'go every where' as if it was without reason.


Last edited by bruce3 on Thu Dec 15, 2011 4:05 pm; edited 1 time in total
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PostSubject: Re: Gaul and Sharp   Thu Dec 15, 2011 2:53 pm

I guess it would be helpful to know the details about Doreen Gaul and James Sharp's murders to compare it to the statements made by James Green so that you can see the differences in his story. Most notable to me were the description of what Doreen was wearing and the description of the car. Here are the seven pages of the first progress report.













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PostSubject: Re: Gaul and Sharp   Thu Dec 15, 2011 3:36 pm

Nov.21.'69 Sharp was against them hitchhiking,but Gaul persisted. Sad. Once again a '66 Chevy is involved. I now believe it was Davis and Watson who killed the couple. I have the feeling based on al I know that Bruce 'held' while Tex stabbed,etc. I feel it was Bruce who did the 'motorcycle chaining' of the two in the alley.
This knife pattern caused LT.Deemer who worked the Tate case earlier in the year to state 'whoever did Tate did these two!' He told us this is what he 'thought' or said to himslef as he was examining the wounds.

We had spoken to two people that were still livng near the place where the bodies were lying! Rare for LA! They remembered it was 'lighted up in that alley like it was day time'and they could see Deemer and his men searching,etc., they said.
They heard nothing suspicous the night of the crime. Cold cases are so very frustrating. It takes so long and so much money for we amateurs to find people and gather info,etc. Scoring the report was very time consuming as it was on my list for many years. If we had not found Deemer's murder book there would be no report!

Both men BD/TW were seen together around Nov.23.'69 saying to an informant they 'needed money and that they were going to kill someone!' They were in a green VW bus. Davis,as given, left for Great Britain on the 24th.

It was a "motorcycle chain" that was used on both victims and Davis owned a BMW motorcycle-he was into MCs.

One thing as a bonus, if I may say that, in the RPPD report for Jan.70 is that investigators found 'members of the Family' staying at an apartment right behind Robin Graham's house (they did not note this connection as RG later was to vanish from the side of the freeway 11/15/70 with her disabled car -see my site under 'victims' ).

The mother told me she could see this place from her rear window! This is not that far from the Gaul/Sharp murders,and close to the LaBianica's place. Robin had a friend close to the LaBiancas she used to visit on Waverly Dr. I think this is where she was spotted. She also attended Pierce College in the Valley and a family member lived very close to the college.They had a lot of Valley connections. Davis and Watson used to score drugs there too from certain people at the Process Center!

Rose Tashman in '69 was another freeway victim with a disabled car (see my site). Her car had a flat as she was coming back from a Valley college. Her spare trunk tire was inaccessible as the key had been stolen! When her car was found there were flares 'neatly' set around the car,but she had vanished only to be found later by the side of the road.
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Eduard
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PostSubject: Re: Gaul and Sharp   Mon Jan 02, 2012 4:39 am

Inn the police report we can read:


No physical evidence was found.
I believe the devil is in the detail. If you know what to look for you can probably find it.

I found out that there was a graffiti left at the scene of the Gaul-Sharp murder.
It had the letters LHR in it (LHR=Lake Herman Road???) but also something that looks like the symbol used by the writer of the "Bates had to Die" letters.



It didn't look like part of the other graffiti on the wall (other style, less dark, and taking it's own place at the wall) at the scene.

Zodiac left his "graffiti" on Hartnell's car, telling about his past crimes. Is this double murder another crime connected to Zodiac?

Below the complete picture I took it from:



What do you think?



Last edited by Eduard on Mon Jan 02, 2012 5:19 am; edited 1 time in total
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PostSubject: Re: Gaul and Sharp   Mon Jan 02, 2012 5:03 am

Not sure it's quite hard to make out - it look more like WC to me though at first glance.

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Eduard
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PostSubject: Re: Gaul and Sharp   Mon Jan 02, 2012 5:22 am

If it was WC it would be a W with 3 bows Like the symbol M of the word "More" in the "Bates Die" letter.



I think it is meant to be a symbol of some sort.
Sorry not agreeing with you, Traveler Wink
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PostSubject: Re: Gaul and Sharp   Mon Jan 02, 2012 5:41 am

Hey no prob lol, it's so unclear it could be any of the things mentioned. I'll try and see if I can enhance it but it is pretty low quality so no promises.

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PostSubject: Re: Gaul and Sharp   Mon Jan 02, 2012 5:59 am

Here we go. Not sure I'm any the wiser or if it's better lol but here it is with 3 (rather crude) examples underneath of what it might be.


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Eduard
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PostSubject: Re: Gaul and Sharp   Mon Jan 02, 2012 7:22 am

The first draw is made from middle to top of first peek. You didn't draw that in any of your drawings. I tried to draw what I see in it (your art technics are way better, Traveler! Laughing )

]

The overall look of the symbol looks more like 4 mountainpeaks or the upperpart of the batsignal. But details are hard to see in the picture so could be something special or anything else...
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PostSubject: Re: Gaul and Sharp   Mon Jan 02, 2012 3:03 pm

When I get back to work I will check photo.There were six garbage can lids lined up on the ground near where the victims were found as given in my book. Some photos of the crime scene are in Bill Nelson's book.

Ed Sanders mentions the grafti in his book the Family.
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PostSubject: Re: Gaul and Sharp   Mon Jan 02, 2012 7:25 pm

Eduard wrote:
The first draw is made from middle to top of first peek. You didn't draw that in any of your drawings. I tried to draw what I see in it (your art technics are way better, Traveler! Laughing )

]

The overall look of the symbol looks more like 4 mountainpeaks or the upperpart of the batsignal. But details are hard to see in the picture so could be something special or anything else...

Ok I see what you are seeing now and why you are seeing it, at least for the M. That adjoining loop looks like part of darker graffiti to me which is why I didn't include it, it doesn't look to be part of the larger piece, merely under it or over it.

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PostSubject: Re: Gaul and Sharp   Mon Jan 02, 2012 8:30 pm

bruce3 wrote:
When I get back to work I will check photo.There were six garbage can lids lined up on the ground near where the victims were found as given in my book. Some photos of the crime scene are in Bill Nelson's book.

Ed Sanders mentions the grafti in his book the Family.

I lightened the photo a little so that you can see the garbage can lids. They are to the right of the telephone pole, two rows of three can lids.



And this is a copy of the property report detailing the things found on and near the victims. Curiously the garbage can lids are not mentioned.

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PostSubject: Re: Gaul and Sharp   Tue Jan 03, 2012 4:32 am

And there was a FoxTail Flats at LB. A foxtail was found under he victim.This seems like a hybrid LB and RS crime/s as given. At LB both females and male is stabbed. At RS Z writes about alleys and a lone female. Magnolia street was involved in both crimes.The all upper case typed note as at RS. Both notes written in Nov.,one in '66 and the other in '69(reverse the 6 and you get '66 to '69!),etc.There are some other match ups I hope to give Tuesday from work unless I don't get caught up from the holidays!
You have Eduard's brilliant stab pattern parallel in this thread.
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Eduard
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PostSubject: Re: Gaul and Sharp   Tue Jan 03, 2012 5:51 am

Bruce3 wrote:
Quote :
You have Eduard's brilliant stab pattern parallel in this thread

Howard, all my work on the Gaul-Sharp case couldn't have been possible for you giving me info about it in the past.
I consider you the expert on this case.... Thnx!
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PostSubject: Re: Gaul and Sharp   Tue Jan 03, 2012 1:49 pm

Prof.Ed,
I am not an expert. There is always much to learn and so little spare time to learn it. On the other hand you have proved your expertise in many subjects related to Z.

I want to say also that I contacted LT Deemer by phone ( he called me once)and sent/received letters from him about the all cap typed Z note that was found. I knew his health wasn't the best as he was a diabetic so I wanted to make sure all was as given about that Z note. He would not tell me who found it though as it was a member of his team then, but it was tucked away in his murder book which was later given to his dept. to complete their set after his death as well as the Z note. This is how we got the complete Gaul case file.
Deemer told me it was a 'copy' there was no original! Just like the Confession! This greatly surprised me. I wanted to confirm it. I was very excited about the doc but I just had to have him confirm it. He did,but he was interviewed by phone about it later as well as other aspects of the case. I need to get the taped(with his permission at the time) interview.
When asked why he didn't turn it in then his reply was 'I was up to my eyeballs in murders '(he said 187's)and forgot about it. If you went through his murder book as it was called you could not help but see what he was talking about just dozens of murders. LT Earl claims to have sent a Z note copy of his copy to the 'two Italians' at SFPD who he thought were working the Z case. Z was not the big deal to Southern CA as it was to N CA.then. Of course, today it has grown to mythic proportions. They did work the Z case for a brief period of time then it went to Toschi and Armstrong. I later figured out he meant the two 'Greeks.'

Deemer's number one suspect was Bruce Davis and no other. He was 100% convinced he was 'involved.' He even tried to get a CII Agent to interview Davis in prison which he did, but Davis was 'not willing to talk''(surprise- surprise!).This doc has been published by us also. We got it from Deemer.
The reason I am posting this is because I have been accused by you know who -shoot from the hip that this Z doc was forged. NO it was not !!! Even though this kind of statement is to be expected this would be reprehensible.

Happy New Year !
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PostSubject: Re: Gaul and Sharp   Wed Jan 04, 2012 3:46 pm

As soon a I read the report that Jim Sharps jacket was pulled down to his elbows, I pictured another person holding him ,while being stabbed by the other person.
It seemed as if Doreen had been raped, there is a lot of physical evidence that could be re-checked for DNA ? The hair found in their hands, should be checked against the hair found with Cheri Jo Bates.

From the foxtail I get another message, not only the Lake B connection.
Zorro is Spanish for Fox, Zorro's logo is the Z. Zodiac would want to leave something, to let police know he was there.

I wish that the graffiti on the wall was more clear !
There has been other suspicious graffiti found near other murder scenes. Also near my home and at Pam's in the early 90's. (Non gang like) Messages like : 7 in a row , Bets an ax .
I am very sure that we will see pictures of other graffiti in Lyndon's book.

The graffiti at the Gaul crime scene could also be a message. I do believe Zodiac wrote on walls, like Jack the Ripper did.
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PostSubject: Re: Gaul and Sharp   Wed Jan 04, 2012 4:58 pm

sandy betts wrote:
The graffiti at the Gaul crime scene could also be a message. I do believe Zodiac wrote on walls, like Jack the Ripper did.

Problem is that it's not confirmed that JTR wrote that graffiti on the wall or any wall but I can't ignore the chance to point out some jacktherippernicity here given that the graffiti in the JTR case was found at GAULston street. Very Happy

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PostSubject: Re: Gaul and Sharp   Wed Jan 04, 2012 6:23 pm

1st,
I have researched the Ripper case for a number of years and even Philip Sudgen who is a very ultra conservative historian who cleared up all of the inaccuracies in the case and wrote, in my view, the best book on the Ripper, very much leaned towards that the Goulston street writing' ( a small portion as you know of an apron that Jack's victim had been wearing that evening was found very near the writing as if to point to the graffiti) about the 'Jews' (since the message was foolishly 'rubbed out' by the police one says it was "Jewes" and another police source said "Juews." All are agreed the decision to not photograph the message was just plain stupid.
Jack was clearly trying to throw blame on the Jews at the time.'The Jews(sp) are not the men that will not be blamed for nothing.'This is backed by other evidence Sudgen points out in his book.

Sudgen wrote,"The writing in Goulston street was probably the only tangible clue ever left by the Whitechapel murderer."!!! Jack the Ripper pg.505
Out of all the suspects George Chapman was his choice(as well as the Lead Inspector on the case then Fredrick Abberline who was an expert on crime in Whitchapel and the Ripper ...he named Jr.Surgeon/barber Chapman years later due to his appearence in the papers for poisoning three wives and some research-Chapman had been missed in finding men house to house as suspects in WC-perhaps because he lived in a basement at one point)of the Ripper but of course it as he says is unproven.
Chapman knew Yiddish and Polish. GC knew Russian military take down methods including cutting the throat that were very similar as to how the Ripper took his victims out, but his English was poor and perhaps that was reflected in his misspelling Jews?
The nest was the Mr.Lusk from hell letter,but even this letter is in doubt by some.
This would not really influence young Z if he read stories (books/det.mags)about JTR as many of the letters we now know were not from the Ripper were accepted then as from his icy hand. I believe Z was influenced by the Ripper as to writing letters,etc.This seems to show in writing the Confession and sending it to the media as well as the police -about 'female parts.' Z dispatched Cheri with a knife.


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PostSubject: Re: Gaul and Sharp   Wed Jan 04, 2012 7:14 pm

Ah cool. Sorry for misspelling Goulston and thanks for taking the time to post that. Might keep an eye out for that book.

I can't help but pick up on the use of language such as 'leaned towards' and 'probably' in regards Sugden. Not really very confirming although I'm sure his back up points make for compelling reading.

Could you confirm if the the writing on the wall at Goulston Street was a triple negative as you have quoted here or a double negative as I always though it was in my memory.

Finally, you really confused me by starting off your post with '1st'. Took me a while to realise 1st meant me and not the 1st point you were making lol.

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