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 "ZODE" from Pacific High School in San Bernardino

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morf13
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PostSubject: Re: "ZODE" from Pacific High School in San Bernardino   Thu Aug 19, 2010 9:48 pm

Theforeigner wrote:
I found this information on the net som time ago, it was originally posted in December 1994:
Alledged based on a note from 1985 which the poster alledged had provided to different police departments and Graysmith.

I belive that the person called "ZODE" in this post below, might be the Zodiac POI with the initials "MZ", and maybe the poster was "Patricia Hautz"?



Posted by an173085@anon.penet.fi

http://groups.google.com/group/alt.true-crime/browse_thread/thread/575cc4b6e04f2f6/8d4f689f0ac4baea?hl=en&ie=UTF-8&q=zodiac+killer


The Identity of the Real Zodiac


an173085 View profile
More options Dec 28 1994, 10:35 pm

Newsgroups: alt.true-crime
From: an173...@anon.penet.fi
Date: Wed, 28 Dec 1994 15:32:56 UTC
Local: Wed, Dec 28 1994 4:32 pm
Subject: The Identity of the Real Zodiac
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It is with great reluctance that I post this article, re-written
from a note I wrote in 1985 and sent to several police
departments and to the author of "Zodiac", all of whom ignored
it. I am still concerned for my personal safety, and for
the possibility that this may not be taken seriously, hence
I must remain anonymous.


A series of random murders in both Los Angeles and San Francisco,
and the television broadcast of a composite sketch of the killer,
strongly suggested in 1985 that the Zodiac killer, who was
never caught, may have been involved. Zodiac committed his
initial crimes in San Francisco, and later was traced to the LA
area. The San Francisco night stalker, some ten years later,
followed a similar pattern.


I attended Pacific High School in San Bernardino, California and
graduated there in 1964. Among the students at that time was one
the other kids called "Big Bad Zode". They called him that
because he was puny, wierd, and called himself ZODIAC. "Zode" was
an extremely odd person. He was seriously disturbed, angry and
violent. He was teased mercilessly, and often
threatened the students that someday he would kill them
all, and that someday he would be a famous person.


A typical scene:


"Hey, Zode, are you going to kill us all?"
"You are so stupid. Someday I will be very famous and you will
all be dead."
"Oh yeah? How are you going to do it?"
"You'll find out, and they'll never catch me. And then when I
finally die you'll all be my slaves".


Details


"Zode" referred to himself as Zodiac, wrote "Zodiac" on classroom
chalkboards and told
everyone to remember that name. He said that his victims would
become his slaves in the afterlife. He resembled
the televised police composite sketch of the San Francisco
night stalker. He was highly intelligent, made a point of
telling everyone how stupid they were, and achieved high
scores on the SAT, a fact that one would not have suspected given
his odd behavior, dress, and handwriting. He flapped his arms
around the schoolyard and cawed like a crow, and masturbated in
the urinals. He preferred to use wide soft pencils, and printed,
rather than wrote, in a childish scrawl. The handwriting
found on a desk at San Bernardino Valley College, closely
resembled that of "Zode", which I saw once in a paper he
wrote about one of the girls in the class, and which outraged the
instructor to the point of threatening him that "if he ever wrote
anything like that again, he was going to call the police".
Several other teachers were similarly outraged at the content of
his manuscripts, though they never revealed them to the classes.
Given his disturbed personality, "Zode" probably should not have
attended public school. In fact, there was speculation that his
parents held some sort of powerful political influence and thus
were able to keep him in the school.


The investigators in charge of the Zodiac investigation in San
Francisco at the time received this information, and within a few
weeks the Zodiac crimes ceased.


"Zode" was of short stature, and may have had a
hunchback. He wore thick glasses, dressed in dark clothing, had
dark curly or wavy hair, and may have been from the middle
east. His picture may not have been included in the High
School annual, at his request. However, "Zode"
was well known to the students, particularly members of
the Key Club and student council. It is certain that his
instructors would not have forgotten him.


In 1964 Pacific High School graduated over 1200 Seniors, the
largest class in California History. Given "Zode"'s blatant
nature, it is surprising that his connection to Zodiac was never
made public. It seems that he was right in his assessment of our
stupidity. Certainly, "Zode" struck a blow against the society
that persecuted him.


By the way, if you care to identify yourself and can prove that
you have the means at your disposal to use this information
to eliminate Zodiac, send me a response via this anonymous
mail server and I'll contact you with "Zode"'s real name.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
To find out more about the anon service, send mail to h...@anon.penet.fi.
Due to the double-blind, any mail replies to this message will be anonymized,
and an anonymous id will be allocated automatically. You have been warned.
Please report any problems, inappropriate use etc. to ad...@anon.penet.fi.

What makes this seem legit, is that this email was sent before all of the Zodiac forums were around, and before most people had read the Graysmith book, watched the films, etc. Whoever wrote that email had to know some stuff about the Z case, and about Zode. And Foreigner, after reading this quote-
"In fact, there was speculation that his
parents held some sort of powerful political influence and thus
were able to keep him in the school"

Maybe his family did have some political connections.
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PostSubject: Re: "ZODE" from Pacific High School in San Bernardino   Thu Aug 19, 2010 9:51 pm

Zabagliona wrote:
Remember, Z said he only "looked a certain way" when he "did his thing"....hypothetically, this guy could have kept his darker longer hair when he wore the hood, and could have gotten a buzzcut and dyed it before he "did his thing."

As far as Welsh people go, that is NOT correct. Just like the Irish who can be very fair with blue eyes, or black haired and darker, so can welshmen...Tom Jones, for example is Welsh, and when he was younger looked like this: (God help me, DO NOT SAY ANNNYTHING ABOUT HIS CLOTHES!!ROFL!)






I knew it would happen, someone would break out the Tom Jones pics.....it's not unusual... Laughing But seriously, a good point.
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PostSubject: Re: "ZODE" from Pacific High School in San Bernardino   Thu Aug 19, 2010 10:07 pm

morf13 wrote:
Theforeigner wrote:

However the MFZ was born in 1966 so his addresses in the bay area has not that much merrit, UNLESS his father TAZ, MLZ´s cousin, lived in the bay area in Zodiac crime years.

Can you PM me his Dad's name. I couldnt find many people at all with that last name.

You´v got mail Smile
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PostSubject: Re: "ZODE" from Pacific High School in San Bernardino   Thu Aug 19, 2010 10:09 pm

morf13 wrote:
Quote :
What makes this seem legit, is that this email was sent before all of the Zodiac forums were around, and before most people had read the Graysmith book, watched the films, etc. Whoever wrote that email had to know some stuff about the Z case, and about Zode. And Foreigner, after reading this quote-
"In fact, there was speculation that his
parents held some sort of powerful political influence and thus
were able to keep him in the school"

Maybe his family did have some political connections.

I would say that MLZ´s uncle beeing " chief justice of the xxxxxxx Supreme Court " is a pretty heavy positive " Maybe his family did have some political connections"
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PostSubject: Re: "ZODE" from Pacific High School in San Bernardino   Thu Aug 19, 2010 10:30 pm

Now they're saying the investigators were notified about him and the Zodiac crimes stopped thereafter?

The hell?
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PostSubject: Re: "ZODE" from Pacific High School in San Bernardino   Thu Aug 19, 2010 10:39 pm

By the way, I have seen a photo of the yearbook with the word ZODIAC written over his photo. (It was a poor quality photo). It looked like blue felt tip pen (if i remember, its been so long). Any possibility that he himself signed that for another classmate, or could someone who wants to make a case for him as Z have wrote it?
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PostSubject: Re: "ZODE" from Pacific High School in San Bernardino   Thu Aug 19, 2010 10:45 pm

A hair found behind a Zodiac stamp was described as light brown with red tinge.

Catherine Zeta Jones is Welsh, has dark hair, somewhat tan skin but I think that is Hollywood. Welsh people are Celtic, and most are as white as can be - fair complected, light skin.

From Mike Rodelli interview with Officer Fouke - who is light complected and fair skinned, and apparently Welsh:

6. We asked Sgt. Fouke about his reference to Zodiac being of "Welsh ancestry". There has been a lot of talk recently about this being a veiled racist remark, meaning that Zodiac was a Caucasian, not a member of any one of a number of minorities. He said to us that the reference was to body type and overall build characteristics, which called to his mind the image of Welsh coal miners. Fouke had good reason to use that frame of reference: He is also of Welsh origin.

I saw a photo spread in the New York Times in 2000 that made me think that the "Welsh" reference specifically had to do with hair color. I saw in that photo spread (from the color magazine section) that Welsh people seem to have the same reddish brown hair that Zodiac had. Fouke said that the Welsh reference had nothing to do with hair color, only build. (That is not to say that he disputes the hair color that was described by the PH eyewitnesses. He is simply saying that he was not referring to hair color when he made his statement about "Welsh" ancestry.)

http://web.archive.org/web/20060504171557/www.mikerodelli.com/2interview.html

Also, a little off topic but Fouke said this:

F: Yes. Graysmith is full of shit. He, writes very good fiction.
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PostSubject: Re: "ZODE" from Pacific High School in San Bernardino   Thu Aug 19, 2010 10:45 pm

I got an email filled with some old posts about ZODE from over on zodiackiller.com.

A member named KATANA wrote:

"If the PHS-Z went to college after H.S., I don’t believe he was successful. I am aware that he held/holds low level jobs that probably only required a H.S. diploma. After H.S. in the mid-‘60s most young men did one of four things 1) went to college to maintain a deferment, 2) voluntarily enlisted in the military, 3) went to work and waited for draft papers, and 4) went to San Fran to Turn on, Tune in and Drop out. IMO I believe the PHS-Z either enlisted or was drafted into the military. Either during or shortly after boot camp he was probably identified as requiring some sort of mental evaluation.
I have only been able to connect the PHS-Z’s name to San Francisco (Filbert St address) and Alexander Way in either Pleasanton or Vallejo, CA. The people who actually own/reside at these addresses may be relatives who have the same very unique last name. When I say that the PHS-Z’s last name is unique, I am saying that during my 62 years on this planet and traveling around the world, I never heard of any other person having that same last name until early in 2008 while doing my research.
I have received a lot of communications from members of this board. A few of you have successfully unraveled the symbol and have validated the Hautz and PHS-Z connection at PHS. One member made an incredible discovery of a photo of the PHS-Z in the mid-60’s, which had the name Zodiac written on the picture. WHAT A GREAT FIND!!!!
I’m convinced Cheri Jo is looking down on all of you and appreciates the fact that there is someone trying to find some justice for her, her family/friends and all of the other Z - victims"

Anyone checked his military records under the FOIA? If not, I would be happy to do that.
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PostSubject: Re: "ZODE" from Pacific High School in San Bernardino   Thu Aug 19, 2010 10:48 pm

I dont know what a welsh guy is supposed to look like, but this guy looks generally like Z:


I take it that this photo was from a couple years ago, but he doesnt look olive skinned to me. Now i hvae seen his mid 1960's yearbook photo, and he did look a little darker then.
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PostSubject: Re: "ZODE" from Pacific High School in San Bernardino   Thu Aug 19, 2010 10:54 pm

Hi AK,

I will continue to politely but completely disagree with you; I grew up with a lot of Welsh people, and they were "split"....half were very fair and Celtic looking, the other half, shorter and stockier, almost Italian or Middle Eastern looking.

In fact, Welsh people recognize this, and call the "Dark Welsh" SILURES:

From Wikipedia (excerpt):

The Silures were a powerful and warlike tribe of ancient Britain, occupying approximately the counties of Monmouthshire, Breconshire and Glamorganshire of present day South Wales; and possibly Gloucestershire and Herefordshire of present day England.[citation needed] They were bordered to the north by the Ordovices; to the east by the Dobunni; and to the west by the Demetae.

Origins
According to Tacitus's biography of Agricola, the Silures usually had a dark complexion and curly hair. Due to their appearance, Tacitus hinted that they may have crossed over from Spain at an earlier date. Genetic studies carried out by University College London, Oxford University and the University of California have suggested that most Welsh and Irish Celts share in part (Y-chromosomes, mtDNA) with the Basque people who originated in northern Iberia during the Paleolithic. "But it is still unclear whether the link is specific to the Celts and the Basques, or whether they are both simply the closest surviving relatives of the early population of Europe" [1] [2]

The Iron Age hillfort at Llanmelin near Caerwent has sometimes been suggested as a pre-Roman tribal centre[3], but the view of most archaeologists is that the people who became known as the Silures were a loose network of groups with some shared cultural values, rather than a centralised society. Although the most obvious physical remains of the Silures are hillforts such as those at Llanmelin and Sudbrook, there is also archaeological evidence of roundhouses at Gwehelog, Thornwell (Chepstow) and elsewhere, and evidence of lowland occupation notably at Goldcliff.[4]

The origin of the name "Silures" itself is unclear: one 19th-century antiquarian source posits an etymological relationship with Welsh Essyllwg and other forms of identical meaning, such as Essyllyr, meaning "of Essyllt":[5] however, this is linguistically quite impossible. A more plausible modern etymology would connect 'Silures' to the Common Celtic root *sīlo-, 'seed'. Words derived from this root in Celtic languages (e.g. Old Irish síl, Welsh hil) are used to mean 'blood-stock, descendants, lineage, offspring', as well as 'seed' in the vegetable sense. 'Silures' might therefore mean 'Kindred, Stock', perhaps referring to a tribal belief in a descent from an originating ancestor.[original research?]

Fierce resistance to Roman forces

Tribes of Wales at the time of the Roman invasion. The modern Anglo-Welsh border is also shown, for reference purposes.The Silures made a fierce resistance to the Roman conquest about AD 48, with the assistance of Caratacus, a military leader and prince of the Catuvellauni, who had fled from further east after his own tribe was defeated...

....soooo, they could have "mixed" with Romans also...







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PostSubject: Re: "ZODE" from Pacific High School in San Bernardino   Thu Aug 19, 2010 10:56 pm

Arabic people have more melatonin in their skin, so when exposed to sunlight, they will get darker skin than someone of WASP ancestry.
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PostSubject: Re: "ZODE" from Pacific High School in San Bernardino   Thu Aug 19, 2010 10:58 pm

Morf, other than that guy looking kinda like Mr. Magoo on meth, it's very hard to tell from the picture! Very Happy

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PostSubject: Re: "ZODE" from Pacific High School in San Bernardino   Thu Aug 19, 2010 10:59 pm

AK Wilks wrote:
Arabic people have more melatonin in their skin, so when exposed to sunlight, they will get darker skin than someone of WASP ancestry.

Does the pic I just posted look like an arab guy? I think we are getting off course a little. I have seen this guy when he was younger and older. When he was younger, he looked a bit darker (not super dark). Now he looks lighter. I think anyone that saw his pics would agree with me.
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PostSubject: Re: "ZODE" from Pacific High School in San Bernardino   Thu Aug 19, 2010 11:02 pm

Apparently the whole "Welsh" thing is overblown - Fouke says he just meant to evoke Welsh coal miners and their body type.

We don't even know for sure if the man Fouke saw was Zodiac - he was calm and had no blood on him, and appeared older than what the teens, Mageau or Johns saw. Who knows?

Bottom line, however, is this man MZ looks "ethnic" and had jet black hair. That does not match most Zodiac descriptions, or any really.

It is an interesting report, but I can't place much face in an anonymous internet report.

Why have not dozens of classmates come forward, after the book, after the movie, and said "Oh yeah I remember this kid who said "This is the Zodiac speaking" and "slaves in the after life"? I just can't buy it, so I will leave it to others to check it out. You are doing a good job and making progress - I'll leave you alone!
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PostSubject: Re: "ZODE" from Pacific High School in San Bernardino   Thu Aug 19, 2010 11:03 pm

Zabagliona wrote:
Morf, other than that guy looking kinda like Mr. Magoo on meth, it's very hard to tell from the picture! Very Happy


Its not the best pic, thats for sure, but out of this:


& THIS,


Which one looks arab, and which one looks white, like Z?
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PostSubject: Re: "ZODE" from Pacific High School in San Bernardino   Thu Aug 19, 2010 11:05 pm

AK Wilks wrote:
Apparently the whole "Welsh" thing is overblown - Fouke says he just meant to evoke Welsh coal miners and their body type.

We don't even know for sure if the man Fouke saw was Zodiac - he was calm and had no blood on him, and appeared older than what the teens, Mageau or Johns saw. Who knows?

Bottom line, however, is this man MZ looks "ethnic" and had jet black hair. That does not match most Zodiac descriptions, or any really.

It is an interesting report, but I can't place much face in an anonymous internet report.

Why have not dozens of classmates come forward, after the book, after the movie, and said "Oh yeah I remember this kid who said "This is the Zodiac speaking" and "slaves in the after life"? I just can't buy it, so I will leave it to others to check it out. You are doing a good job and making progress - I'll leave you alone!

AK, there is some evidence that Z may have had dark hair. Mageau said it was dark (of course he had a light in his eyes), and supposedly, Cecilia told the park ranger that there were black strands of hair peeking out of the eyeholes in the mask.

And the person that sent the anonymou email apparently is not anonymous, but wound up joining as a member at zodiackiller.com, and spilled everything he new about MLZ
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PostSubject: Re: "ZODE" from Pacific High School in San Bernardino   Thu Aug 19, 2010 11:08 pm

If anything, Morf, this guy looks a little like the Sonoma Zodiac sketch that I know you love so much!!! Laughing

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PostSubject: Re: "ZODE" from Pacific High School in San Bernardino   Thu Aug 19, 2010 11:14 pm

morf13 wrote:
AK Wilks wrote:
Apparently the whole "Welsh" thing is overblown - Fouke says he just meant to evoke Welsh coal miners and their body type.

We don't even know for sure if the man Fouke saw was Zodiac - he was calm and had no blood on him, and appeared older than what the teens, Mageau or Johns saw. Who knows?

Bottom line, however, is this man MZ looks "ethnic" and had jet black hair. That does not match most Zodiac descriptions, or any really.

It is an interesting report, but I can't place much face in an anonymous internet report.

Why have not dozens of classmates come forward, after the book, after the movie, and said "Oh yeah I remember this kid who said "This is the Zodiac speaking" and "slaves in the after life"? I just can't buy it, so I will leave it to others to check it out. You are doing a good job and making progress - I'll leave you alone!

AK, there is some evidence that Z may have had dark hair. Mageau said it was dark (of course he had a light in his eyes), and supposedly, Cecilia told the park ranger that there were black strands of hair peeking out of the eyeholes in the mask.

And the person that sent the anonymou email apparently is not anonymous, but wound up joining as a member at zodiackiller.com, and spilled everything he new about MLZ

But if this guy really said such crazy and incriminating things, I would think there would be dozens of classmates, teachers, friends, etc. who would have come out after the book, movie, etc., and reported this to police, media. But I have never seen anything, in the FBI files, police records, media, etc. It just doesn't ring true to me, but I agree it must be checked out. It does intrigue. And he does look a little like the Sonoma sketch, and we all know what a masterpiece that is! affraid
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PostSubject: Re: "ZODE" from Pacific High School in San Bernardino   Thu Aug 19, 2010 11:19 pm

Remember, the guy that brought these claims forward, did so BEFORE any Zodiac sites or forums existed. He knew details of this guy, and Hautz, and after reading alot of his posts, he seems sincere. If someone truly made statements saying "this is the Zodiac speaking", and drew crosshair symbols on chalkboards, how can you not want to verify if its true?

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PostSubject: Re: "ZODE" from Pacific High School in San Bernardino   Fri Aug 20, 2010 12:15 am

I am just saying IF it was TRUE, why haven't there been dozens of students who reported this?

During the time of the Zodiac murders it was a front page story all over California, including LA, in particular when the Riverside connection was made.

The Graysmith book came out in what, 1986? I have a 1990 paperback. The Zodiac has been on Unsolved Mysteries and Cold Case Files. Then we have the Hollywood movie.

And nobody else has come forward to say they remember a kid talking about "This is the Zodiac speaking", slaves and killing? I don't buy it.

But it is interesting and should be checked out, absolutely. You guys are making progress.

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PostSubject: Re: "ZODE" from Pacific High School in San Bernardino   Fri Aug 20, 2010 7:55 am

A couple of points:

1) As your resident Welshman on this forum, I can vouch that us Welsh have many different types of looks and colouring. We are obviously Celtic and the stereotypical ancient Celtic colouring had a fair complexion and hair which could be described as sandy to reddish brown or even very red. Having said that, there are many Welsh people with very dark hair too and as in everywhere else in the world, migration (especially during the first and second World Wars) and other factors mean that various mixing of gene pools has resulted in an even greater number of Welsh people with darker colouring.

You only have to google images of various Welsh celebrities over the years such as Tom Jones, Richard Burton, Anthony Hopkins, Catherine Zeta Jones, Ioan Grufudd, Gavin Henson, etc to see that there are many darker skinned/haired people amongst them. Foukes said that if he had to pick out a group of people who Z made him think of, it would be Welsh and later explained that his wife and her family were Welsh and Z just reminded him of the males in her family. Later again, he mentioned the build of coal miners. Again, coal miners came in all shapes and sizes but I do wonder if he was just referring to someone with a powerful upper body as many people when thinking of coal miners, steel plate workers, etc think of strong backed and broad chested guys - I know I certainly do.

Picking up on another witness description, Mageau mentioned that the main thing he remembered was that Z had a big face. Looking back at pictures of guys like Richard Burton, Tom Jones and Anthony Hopkins (maybe even Dylan Thomas?) you certainly wouldn't describe them as having long, thin faces and some of them did have quite strong and moderately wide faces.



Just a thought, but as guys like Richard Burton, Dylan Thomas and Tom Jones were fairly recognisable faces in America at this time - could Foukes have been commenting on a similarity to these guys?

2) PHS seems like a good possible POI to look further into, due to the information supplied by the fellow pupil who said he used the word Zodiac to describe himself, mentioned slaves, etc. We mustn't forget however that Don Cheney went to the police a long time ago saying that Arthur Leigh Allen told him he would call himself the Zodiac, collect slaves, etc and this is increasingly looking like a load of old bull. Doesn't mean that one or even both stories could have some basis in fact though although I've personally ruled out Cheney as telling the truth and await further research on PHS.

As an interesting link to my 1st point, PHS looks more mediterranean to me - especially in the more recent photo (looks like a Mafia Godfather!). Tom Jones was pretty well known in Vegas/California areas in the late 60's early 70's and was extremely Mediterranean looking so perhaps Foukes was relating to him rather than a fair complexioned Celtic look?

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PostSubject: Re: "ZODE" from Pacific High School in San Bernardino   Fri Aug 20, 2010 8:47 am

Thank you Quagmire! This is what I was trying to get at earlier!

Great post!
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PostSubject: Re: "ZODE" from Pacific High School in San Bernardino   Fri Aug 20, 2010 9:56 am

Zabagliona wrote:
Thank you Quagmire! This is what I was trying to get at earlier!

Great post!

Thanks Zab. Or as they say in my native tongue - Diolch!
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PostSubject: Re: "ZODE" from Pacific High School in San Bernardino   Fri Aug 20, 2010 10:38 am

Point taken. Smile
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PostSubject: Re: "ZODE" from Pacific High School in San Bernardino   Fri Aug 20, 2010 10:46 am

AK Wilks wrote:
Point taken. Smile

Danke vielmals! Zam*
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