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 1971 Letter from The Zodiac

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Zamantha
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PostSubject: 1971 Letter from The Zodiac   Wed Dec 05, 2012 1:18 am

Posting for Sandy.
1971 letter from the Zodiac, Unconfirmed.


(don't think this has been posted on this forum. If so please delete or move. I searched as long as I'm going to search)











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Last edited by Zamantha on Wed Dec 05, 2012 1:30 am; edited 1 time in total
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glurk
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PostSubject: Re: 1971 Letter from The Zodiac   Wed Dec 05, 2012 1:26 am

I don't think this letter is actually from Z, but that cipher is real, and it solves as:

TISTHEZODIACSPEACEKING
WHYCANTYOUSTOPMEICANT
STOPKILLINGSTOPLISTENING
TPHONYSIFTHISISNOTONTHE
FRONTPAGEINAWEEKIWILL
SKIN3LITTLEKIDSANDMAKE
ASUITFROMTHESKIN

-glurk
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sandy betts
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PostSubject: Re: 1971 Letter from The Zodiac   Wed Dec 05, 2012 2:15 am

glurk wrote:
I don't think this letter is actually from Z, but that cipher is real, and it solves as:

TISTHEZODIACSPEACEKING
WHYCANTYOUSTOPMEICANT
STOPKILLINGSTOPLISTENING
TPHONYSIFTHISISNOTONTHE
FRONTPAGEINAWEEKIWILL
SKIN3LITTLEKIDSANDMAKE
ASUITFROMTHESKIN

-glurk

That was fast glurk , great job ! What stands out to me in this letter real or fake , I see that this person may be mocking the last entry into Donna Lass's nurses book the night she disappeared, where her pen dragged off like in this letter. How many people knew about that at that time ?
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glurk
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PostSubject: Re: 1971 Letter from The Zodiac   Wed Dec 05, 2012 3:30 am

sandy-

This is one that I actually saw and solved a long time ago. I went and checked and saw the cipher and solution were added to the ZKD program Feb 18, 2008:

http://code.google.com/p/zkdecrypto/source/detail?r=127

And on the ZKF board, smithy pointed out that one has to actually SOLVE the thing first in order to see the demand that it be "ON THE FRONT PAGE" which doesn't make any sense.

It kind of screams 'obvious hoax' to me. I can't really opine about the 'dragged off pen,' but that's an interesting point.

-glurk
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entropy
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PostSubject: Re: 1971 Letter from The Zodiac   Wed Dec 05, 2012 4:48 am

This is one of those unconfirmed letters from Fairfield, CA. I'm honestly not crazy about any of them for a lot of reasons. In this one, the cipher looks nothing like what we've seen from Z, the symbol is different and it just seems very derivative of other Z letters. Skinning little kids to make a suit of their skin just doesn't sound like Zodiac, IMHO, but what the hell do I know?

http://zodiackillersite.forummotion.com/t118-unconfirmed-letters-from-fairfield-ca-question-by-entropy

Sandy raises a great question though as to whether this might have been a purposeful allusion to Donna Lass. A quick browse for newspaper articles about Donna Lass' last note didn't come up with anything. How do we know this anyway? To me, it's a very suspicious aspect of the case and certainly makes it appear that Donna Lass may have been foreshadowing her own disappearance. Was it supposed to appear that she was being dragged off while she was writing this note? Very strange indeed...
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glurk
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PostSubject: Re: 1971 Letter from The Zodiac   Wed Dec 05, 2012 5:17 am

Skinning little kids and making a suit from their skin doesn't sound a BIT like Zodiac, but the point smithy made is far more important, IMO.

Yes, Z created ciphers and demanded them to be printed "on the frunt page," etc.... But his ciphers used symbols and were sent as unsolved, but the demands to print them were plainly stated in English.

Zodiac wrote:
Here is a cipher or that is part of one. The other 2 parts are being mailed to the Vallejo Times + S.F. Chronicle I want you to print this cipher on the frunt page by Fry afternoon Aug 1-69. If you do not print this cipher, I will go on a kill rampage Fry night. This will last the whole weekend, I will cruse around killing people who are alone at night untill Sun Night or un till I kill a dozen people.

But in THIS ONE the demand to be printed and the threat of consequences if it is not printed can only be read AFTER IT IS SOLVED!!

So... WTF. And why? If someone solved it, and read the message, then the demand of the "cipher" to be printed on the front page makes no logical sense!

If the demand to print the cipher can only be read after one has solved the cipher, why does the cipher need to be printed at all? It's already solved!

I'm going to agree with smithy. It is "Stoopid."

-glurk
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morf13
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PostSubject: Re: 1971 Letter from The Zodiac   Wed Dec 05, 2012 6:10 am

The symbols on this one remind me of the symbols on this unconfirmed Z cipher/letter:
http://zodiackillersite.forummotion.com/t368-albany-ny-letter-from-zodiac-august-1973

Not saying it's real, or even a match to the Albany letter,merely that to my eye, the way the symbols are drawn look a bit similar

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PostSubject: Re: 1971 Letter from The Zodiac   Wed Dec 05, 2012 6:22 am

Yes, the symbols have some vague look of the originals about them; the least we could expect, no?

glurk - I said it stoopid? Thanks, I agree with me, it's stoopid.

The otherwise occasionally rather odd book by John Robert Jordan "Hunter among the Stars" has some great analysis of the letters, and particularly the mistakes they contain. It describes in detail the writers tendency for phonetic spelling, his inability to understand and correctly interpret the rules in respect to particilple endings, dropping the final "e" and so on. Really good stuff.
Mistakes such as "I done it", "nerver" and "becasuse" don't fit the pattern at all. They're stoopid. Worse, they're so bad, they're insulting. Rolling Eyes
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Qz1
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PostSubject: Re: 1971 Letter from The Zodiac   Wed Dec 05, 2012 7:45 am

sandy betts wrote:
glurk wrote:
I don't think this letter is actually from Z, but that cipher is real, and it solves as:

TISTHEZODIACSPEACEKING
WHYCANTYOUSTOPMEICANT
STOPKILLINGSTOPLISTENING
TPHONYSIFTHISISNOTONTHE
FRONTPAGEINAWEEKIWILL
SKIN3LITTLEKIDSANDMAKE
ASUITFROMTHESKIN

-glurk

That was fast glurk , great job ! What stands out to me in this letter real or fake , I see that this person may be mocking the last entry into Donna Lass's nurses book the night she disappeared, where her pen dragged off like in this letter. How many people knew about that at that time ?

I think the "pen drag" in this letter is an allusion to the "pen drag" on the dripping pen card. Just more foolery.
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PostSubject: Re: 1971 Letter from The Zodiac   Wed Dec 05, 2012 8:02 am

entropy wrote:
This is one of those unconfirmed letters from Fairfield, CA. I'm honestly not crazy about any of them for a lot of reasons. In this one, the cipher looks nothing like what we've seen from Z, the symbol is different and it just seems very derivative of other Z letters. Skinning little kids to make a suit of their skin just doesn't sound like Zodiac, IMHO, but what the hell do I know?

http://zodiackillersite.forummotion.com/t118-unconfirmed-letters-from-fairfield-ca-question-by-entropy

Sandy raises a great question though as to whether this might have been a purposeful allusion to Donna Lass. A quick browse for newspaper articles about Donna Lass' last note didn't come up with anything. How do we know this anyway? To me, it's a very suspicious aspect of the case and certainly makes it appear that Donna Lass may have been foreshadowing her own disappearance. Was it supposed to appear that she was being dragged off while she was writing this note? Very strange indeed...

Hi Entropy

Concerning what I highlighted in red...it actually IS somthing Zodiac would write about.

In his July 26th 1970 "Little List letter" Zodiac wrote:


Quote:

"I shall (on top of everything else) torture all 13 of my slaves that I have wateing for me in Paradice. Some I shall tie over ant hills and watch them scream + twich and squirm. Others shall have pine splinters driven under their nails + then burned. Others shall be placed in cages + fed salt beef untill they are gorged then I shall listen to their pleass for water and I shall laugh at them. Others will hang by their thumbs + burn in the sun then I will rub them down with deep heat to warm them up. Others I shall skin them alive + let them run around screaming. And all billiard players I shall have them play in a darkened dungen cell with crooked cues + Twisted Shoes. Yes I shall have great fun inflicting the most delicious of pain to my slaves"


By the way, does anyone know what date the letter was postmarked?

Could it, due to the common "skinning the victim" theme, have been an anniversery letter of the July 26th 1970 "Little list letter" ?

And here is cipher done easier to read and a few concideration:

The original solution:

TISTHEZODIACSPEACEKING
WHYCANTYOUSTOPMEICANT
STOPKILLINGSTOPLISTENING
TPHONYSIFTHISISNOTONTHE
FRONTPAGEINAWEEKIWILL
SKIN3LITTLEKIDSANDMAKE
ASUITFROMTHESKIN



And the "easier to read and a few concideration" version:

T (THIS) IS THE ZODIAC SPEACEKING (or did he mean SPACE KING? like a Zodiac King)
WHY CANT YOU STOP ME
I CANT STOP KILLING
STOP LISTENING T (TO THE?) PHONYS (PHONEYS or PHONES?)
IF THIS IS NOT ON THE FRONT PAGE IN A WEEK
I WILL SKIN 3 LITTLE KIDS
AND MAKE A SUIT FROM THE SKIN

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entropy
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PostSubject: Re: 1971 Letter from The Zodiac   Wed Dec 05, 2012 10:19 am

Theforeigner wrote:
entropy wrote:
This is one of those unconfirmed letters from Fairfield, CA. I'm honestly not crazy about any of them for a lot of reasons. In this one, the cipher looks nothing like what we've seen from Z, the symbol is different and it just seems very derivative of other Z letters. Skinning little kids to make a suit of their skin just doesn't sound like Zodiac, IMHO, but what the hell do I know?

http://zodiackillersite.forummotion.com/t118-unconfirmed-letters-from-fairfield-ca-question-by-entropy

Sandy raises a great question though as to whether this might have been a purposeful allusion to Donna Lass. A quick browse for newspaper articles about Donna Lass' last note didn't come up with anything. How do we know this anyway? To me, it's a very suspicious aspect of the case and certainly makes it appear that Donna Lass may have been foreshadowing her own disappearance. Was it supposed to appear that she was being dragged off while she was writing this note? Very strange indeed...

Hi Entropy

Concerning what I highlighted in red...it actually IS somthing Zodiac would write about.

In his July 26th 1970 "Little List letter" Zodiac wrote:


Quote:

"I shall (on top of everything else) torture all 13 of my slaves that I have wateing for me in Paradice. Some I shall tie over ant hills and watch them scream + twich and squirm. Others shall have pine splinters driven under their nails + then burned. Others shall be placed in cages + fed salt beef untill they are gorged then I shall listen to their pleass for water and I shall laugh at them. Others will hang by their thumbs + burn in the sun then I will rub them down with deep heat to warm them up. Others I shall skin them alive + let them run around screaming. And all billiard players I shall have them play in a darkened dungen cell with crooked cues + Twisted Shoes. Yes I shall have great fun inflicting the most delicious of pain to my slaves"


By the way, does anyone know what date the letter was postmarked?

Could it, due to the common "skinning the victim" theme, have been an anniversery letter of the July 26th 1970 "Little list letter" ?

And here is cipher done easier to read and a few concideration:

The original solution:

TISTHEZODIACSPEACEKING
WHYCANTYOUSTOPMEICANT
STOPKILLINGSTOPLISTENING
TPHONYSIFTHISISNOTONTHE
FRONTPAGEINAWEEKIWILL
SKIN3LITTLEKIDSANDMAKE
ASUITFROMTHESKIN



And the "easier to read and a few concideration" version:

T (THIS) IS THE ZODIAC SPEACEKING (or did he mean SPACE KING? like a Zodiac King)
WHY CANT YOU STOP ME
I CANT STOP KILLING
STOP LISTENING T (TO THE?) PHONYS (PHONEYS or PHONES?)
IF THIS IS NOT ON THE FRONT PAGE IN A WEEK
I WILL SKIN 3 LITTLE KIDS
AND MAKE A SUIT FROM THE SKIN


Touche, foreigner, you're absolutely right. I guess I meant that it doesn't seem reflective of Zodiac's behavior but if he would express plans of blowing up school busses and skinning people alive, why not make a suit from the skins of children? It still doesn't SOUND right to me but I have no real valid reason for that opinion.

It is kinda funny that the writer places his demand for publication in the cipher solution. Stoopid indeed. I took a cursory look through the FBI files for a date on this but couldn't find anything offhand.
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PostSubject: Re: 1971 Letter from The Zodiac   Wed Dec 05, 2012 12:24 pm

Dear Sir

I shall be in Whitechapel on the 20th of this month-- And will begin some very delicate work about midnight, in the street where I executed my third examination of the human body.


Your till death
Jack the Ripper


Catch Me if you can


PS,{This at the top of the page} I hope you can read what I have written, and will put it all in the paper, not leave half out. If you can not see the letters let me know and I will write them biger.


It looks as tho z was reading up on ours of his kind. You all think that z kept to his MO. But, he said in one of his letters that he was going to change. scratch Jack the Ripper changed the way he murdered. The young, attractive Mary Kelly's face was obliterated, her breasts, genitals, and organs removed, including her heart.
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PostSubject: Re: 1971 Letter from The Zodiac   Wed Dec 05, 2012 12:32 pm

Keys - yes, the Zodiac letters - and this one - do echo the Ripper correspondence, don't they. There's very little new under the sun, as they say.
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PostSubject: Re: 1971 Letter from The Zodiac   Wed Dec 05, 2012 12:35 pm

The image that Zam posted came from a two part series written by Rider McDowell and appeared in the Sunday San Francisco Chronicle and Examiner May 8 & 15, 1994, in the magazine like section of the paper called This World. It is a comprehensive article about Harvey Hines and his suspect Larry Cane/Kane.

The article is very long for a newspaper article but worth a read. I did not post it because of its length and someone had typed it out already, it's posted at Tom's main site.

http://www.zodiackiller.com/KH1.html
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PostSubject: Re: 1971 Letter from The Zodiac   Wed Dec 05, 2012 1:43 pm

That letter looks nothing like Zodiac. They didn't even do the circle-cross right.

OF COURSE a copy-cat would make it sound like Zodiac. They aren't going to write about roses and puppy dogs. Smile

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PostSubject: Re: 1971 Letter from The Zodiac   Wed Dec 05, 2012 2:35 pm

Arrow if that is what you wish to believe... Taho27 flower The oldest DNA ever tested in the criminal invetigatio yielded a mitochondrial DNA from the backs of samps on the Dr. Openshew letter's. envelope that is a component of mitochondrial DNA sequences found on another Ripper envelope and two Sickert envelopes.
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PostSubject: Re: 1971 Letter from The Zodiac   Wed Dec 05, 2012 3:52 pm

KEY.SMITH697 wrote:
Arrow if that is what you wish to believe... Taho27 flower

I've been wrong before. Smile geek

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PostSubject: Re: 1971 Letter from The Zodiac   Wed Dec 05, 2012 8:11 pm

WOW KEYS, ALL THOSE DEBBIE CAKES AND ORANGE CRUSH GAVE YOU SOME KIND OF BRAIN BLAST... lol! KEEP UP THE GOOD WORK... study

WHOS SICKERT..., JUST KIDDING... Twisted Evil SHOES

farao 9
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PostSubject: Re: 1971 Letter from The Zodiac   Thu Dec 06, 2012 1:01 pm

Smile it's ok tahoe27. Liberty, equality, and democracy are key American political values.

farao I can't have to much sugar anymore Sad . I OD pale on to much candy and gum. It was almost the end of me. But, I'm still with you. I'm reading Patricia Cornwell, Portrait of A Killer. It's real good, alot of info and photos. p.s. i like the cover.
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PostSubject: Re: 1971 Letter from The Zodiac   Thu Dec 06, 2012 3:42 pm

You would think that if it was a copy cat, it would be much better than that ?

Seagull is correct, that letter was from Ryder's two weekend writings about Larry Kane / Krew, as told by Harvey Hine's. I wasn't showing it for that reason , it was because it was another letter that some have not seen yet .

That dragging of the pen, made me think of the last notation in Donna Lass's nurses book. I hadn't thought about the dripping pen, that was totally different.
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PostSubject: Re: 1971 Letter from The Zodiac   Thu Dec 06, 2012 3:48 pm

The only reason I mentioned where it came from Sandy is that people do want to know the source of things that are posted. They generally want to know dates and locations of where things were published. A little backgound of any item posted is appriciated.
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PostSubject: Re: 1971 Letter from The Zodiac   Fri Dec 07, 2012 12:35 am

Seagull wrote:
The only reason I mentioned where it came from Sandy is that people do want to know the source of things that are posted. They generally want to know dates and locations of where things were published. A little backgound of any item posted is appriciated.

I am fine with that Seagull, it is very true and I am glad you brought that up, not only for me but others as well. Whenever I drive to Zamantha's to have her post things for me , we don't always have enough time to write the information in before it gets too dark for me to drive home. She has a very busy schedule, so I can only go there when she has the time. She always tells me that when I get home to do that right away, but sometimes things happen and I can't get on the computer to get it done . Eventually I do get around to doing it, by that time I have some replies, then I am able to kill two birds with one stone.
I try to have the dates on the news articles at the top of the pages. Unfortunately I have many things that I've collected , long before there were any message boards, they were things just for me to keep, I didn't think to write the dates, those I don't usually post.
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