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 Unsolved Murder in Vallejo of George Pimental: Possible Connection to North Cal Murders and/or Zodiac?

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Zamantha
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PostSubject: Re: Unsolved Murder in Vallejo of George Pimental: Possible Connection to North Cal Murders and/or Zodiac?   Thu Apr 01, 2010 11:01 pm

Sandy, Since Ron really tried to help you. You need to find out what happened to him. What else do you know, where can we start the search. How did you find out that he died? Curious... I mean he was in Robert Graysmiths Book, then he helped you...and so, did he die of natural causes? I hope so!
As Far as George Pimental in Vallejo, geezes that was intuition to ask the person I asked, and then to have it pan out, also freaky. I think the finger in the eye, is for sure a clew. Wonder if it was from the right or left hand??
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PostSubject: Re: Unsolved Murder in Vallejo of George Pimental: Possible Connection to North Cal Murders and/or Zodiac?   Fri Apr 02, 2010 12:52 pm

I googled "finger in eye". For an Italian it would indicate "I Love You" and for the French, "I don't believe what you're saying".

http://wiki.answers.com/Q/When_Italians_place_a_finger_under_the_eye_and_push_down_slightly_on_the_skin_it_means_what

Also, there was a collection of short stories published in 1944 entitled "The Eye and the Finger" which was a collection of Fantasy, Horror and Science Fiction stories.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Eye_and_the_Finger
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PostSubject: Go figure , finger in the eye ?   Fri Apr 02, 2010 6:38 pm

otrabrit wrote:
I googled "finger in eye". For an Italian it would indicate "I Love You" and for the French, "I don't believe what you're saying".

http://wiki.answers.com/Q/When_Italians_place_a_finger_under_the_eye_and_push_down_slightly_on_the_skin_it_means_what

Also, there was a collection of short stories published in 1944 entitled "The Eye and the Finger" which was a collection of Fantasy, Horror and Science Fiction stories.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Eye_and_the_Finger

Thank you otrabrit for your help, it is greatly appreciated. Its good that people are starting to think out of the box, knowing that the Z enjoyed giving clues that most people would over look.
I looked at the link you gave about the book "Finger in the eye". Maybe I am reading too much into this ?
For all of the people here who are new to the Zodiac case, look at the link that orabrit gave us. Then look at the Halloween card that was sent to Paul Avery on Oct 27th 1970. Notice that the right hand on the skeleton, is giving what looks like a OK sign ?
Then look at otrabrits link to the book, on the "cover" of that book, the creature has his fingers on its hand the same way.

I will be honest with you, I didn't see any connection to Zodiac and this Pimental Vallejo murder at first.
But one thing that I do know about the Zodiac, is that he likes to leave unusual clues. Things that make you wonder was it from him or not ? In other words he loves to toy with people.

If Z was the killer of G.P., did he plan to leave us a clue to the Halloween card sent 13 months earlier ?
So that someone would see the connection to the Finger in the Eye book ? And then perhaps notice that the hand on the creature, was just like what the skeleton had on the Halloween card ? If that is so, then we need to read this book for more clues that could be there !

The other thing that I noticed was that The Finger in the Eye chapter was the third .
I am a believer that the number 3 is a important number to Zodiac. I am not sure if it was because of the sign at the Lake Herman rd crime scene, that had a large number 3 on it or not. The three ciphers sent to three news papers. The three 8's that some believe are three Taurus signs, 3 letters sent to Riverside PD, Cheri Jo's father ,and the press Enterprise on 4-30-67. The three separate murders, LHR. BRS, LB, in the north bay area. To me, "3" means something to him.
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PostSubject: Re: Unsolved Murder in Vallejo of George Pimental: Possible Connection to North Cal Murders and/or Zodiac?   Fri Apr 02, 2010 7:04 pm



I would like to read this short story or find out what it is about!
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PostSubject: Re: Unsolved Murder in Vallejo of George Pimental: Possible Connection to North Cal Murders and/or Zodiac?   Fri Apr 02, 2010 7:05 pm

Hi Sandy

Its interesting that Donald Wandrei, who wrote The Eye and the Finger, was also quite a big fish in the pulp magazine business. Many of us believe Zodiac was heavily influenced by True Crime magazines and I made a detailed post with examples and photos under the thread "The 3X Petterkiller" over at ZK.com a while back. Also, as this Wiki link tells us, Mr Wandrei was part of the H.P. Lovecraft CIRCLE (my capitalisation). Probably grasping at straws but the circle was a symbol that Zodiac was fond of (once he'd added the cross-hairs).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Donald_Wandrei

I was interested in your reference to Z's fascination with the #3. Those straws are perhaps getting ever thinner (!) but take the "h" out of three and youve got tree (Peek through the Pines). Indeed Three in Italian is Tre and in Spanish its Tres, both similar. And finally, the #3 is also a Glyph which means a symbol, something capable of being written symbolically (if I understand the Wiki article correctly) and once again we know who LOVED symbols.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Three

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glyph

I have no idea where I'm going with all this !!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Derek
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PostSubject: Re: Unsolved Murder in Vallejo of George Pimental: Possible Connection to North Cal Murders and/or Zodiac?   Fri Apr 02, 2010 10:13 pm

Donald Albert Wandrei

Funny, "drei" means 3 in German..

-Nin
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PostSubject: Re: Unsolved Murder in Vallejo of George Pimental: Possible Connection to North Cal Murders and/or Zodiac?   Fri Apr 02, 2010 10:17 pm

Donald Albert Wandrei


-Nin
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PostSubject: Re: Unsolved Murder in Vallejo of George Pimental: Possible Connection to North Cal Murders and/or Zodiac?   Fri Apr 02, 2010 10:17 pm

Can anyone find anything on this short story?
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PostSubject: Re: Unsolved Murder in Vallejo of George Pimental: Possible Connection to North Cal Murders and/or Zodiac?   Fri Apr 02, 2010 10:40 pm

The match between the hand on the Zodiac Halloween card and the cover of the short story is quite real. May just be a coincidence, but the similarity is real.



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PostSubject: George Pimental*   Fri Apr 02, 2010 11:34 pm

The match between the hand on the Zodiac Halloween card and the cover of the short story is quite real. May just be a coincidence, but the similarity is real <---------- HONESTLY I do not think this is a coincidence, I also feel it in my bones......we tapped into something...but now far can we go with it, is the HUGH question.
AK, Morf, OR Rufus.... can you post the hands side my side??
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PostSubject: Re: Unsolved Murder in Vallejo of George Pimental: Possible Connection to North Cal Murders and/or Zodiac?   Fri Apr 02, 2010 11:49 pm

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PostSubject: Re: Unsolved Murder in Vallejo of George Pimental: Possible Connection to North Cal Murders and/or Zodiac?   Fri Apr 02, 2010 11:51 pm

According to Wiki

The Eye and the Finger contains the following short stories:

1. "Introduction"
2. "The Lady in Gray"
3. "The Eye and the Finger"
4. "The Painted Mirror"
5. "It Will Grow on You"
6. "The Tree-Men of M'Bwa"
7. "The Lives of Alfred Kramer"
8. "The Monster from Nowhere"
9. "The Witch-Makers"
10. "The Neverless Man"
11. "Black Fog"
12. "The Blinding Shadows"
13. "The Scientist Divides"
14. "Earth Minus"
15. "Finality Unlimited"
16. "The Crystal Bullet"
17. "A Fragment of a Dream"
18. "The Woman at the Window"
19. "The Messengers"
20. "The Pursuers"
21. "The Red Brain"
22. "On the Threshold of Eternity"
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PostSubject: Re: Unsolved Murder in Vallejo of George Pimental: Possible Connection to North Cal Murders and/or Zodiac?   Sat Apr 03, 2010 12:07 am

Yes, Donald Wandrei was a member of the notorious "Lovecraft Circle", but herein you will find no Great Cthulus, slime dripping Byakhees, or worm-eaten copies of De Vermiis Mysteriis, for this collection consists largely of sci-fi stories that rely heavily upon pseudo-science, physical revulsion, and violence for their effect, hence most could be called "horror" stories. There are few tales of the genuine supernatural here, "The Chuckler", "The Lady in Gray", "Don't Dream", and the "Painted Mirror" being the only stories in this thick compendium with authentic occult overtones. Indeed, although Wandrei admired Lovecraft, he doesn't seem to have been influenced much by him in terms of style or device; Wandrei clearly owes much to writers like H.G. Wells, H. Rider Haggard, and Edgar Rice Burroughs for his sci-fi yarns, and his language is surprisingly contemporary. Nearly all of Wandrei's "fantasy fiction" consists of his dream stories and prose poems, all of which are markedly different in feel from his sci-fi efforts. They are true ravings from a fevered mind and smack of the genuine, illogical stuff of nightmare...little if any plot, but striking and atmospheric images and sensations with an ever present feeling of dread in the backdrop. Wandrei captures the feeling of a dream much better than Dunsany or Lovecraft, but his forays into the Dreamlands are brief excursions, not well-plotted epics in the tradtion of the other two authors. <---- Found this on the Web. Sorry... I will re look for the source, to give credit...

SO, What IS the LOVECraft Circle an does it have a logo ??


Last edited by Zamantha on Sat Apr 03, 2010 12:18 am; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : Will relook for the source to give credit for this post. Info found on the WEB.)
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PostSubject: Re: Unsolved Murder in Vallejo of George Pimental: Possible Connection to North Cal Murders and/or Zodiac?   Sat Apr 03, 2010 1:29 am

Interesting reading on the relationship between Lovecraft and Donald Wandrei:

http://www.donherron.com/collecting_donald_wandrei.html
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PostSubject: The Finger in the EYE   Sat Apr 03, 2010 1:58 am

Well, as I see it the Z has major issues with couples and that could be a sexual hang up. Remember it
was the late 60's, everyone back then was NOT as open minded as they are now. I say the Z was AC/DC bisexual... ?
Maybe the Z did things, then had major guilt afterwards?? Like others, I feel he was involved with some form of witchcraft...
that could tie these weird books into it. Not sure how the bartender fits in, maybe just being helpful or doing someone a favor.
How does anything relate to the Z. We do not know ..... I do think the Z was ambidextrous... maybe the finger points to that?
Ok, the Z claims 37 victims, time to find the other victims. I'm still tryng to make the pieces fit in my head.
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PostSubject: Bartender   Sat Apr 03, 2010 2:54 am

We need to find out where the bartender was working, at the time of this dating service ?
I knew most of the bartenders durring that time. Where did GP like to hang out ?
If he was attracted to men bartenders, I can think of one "hunk" who had his own bar in Vallejo. His name is Jim Easterling, and he owned Gentleman Jim's, and then Josey Whales ( the old Coronado Inn ) . If it was known that G.P. was set up for a date by a bartender, then the person who knew that, has to know who the bartender was.

otrabrit, keep up the good work, it could lead to something no one has tapped into before. The idea of the Z using another language, is something that has crossed my mind before.
In a murder that is believed to have been done by Zodiac in Southern Ca., "Doreen" Gaul was killed, and it is my understanding ,that a fox tail was found under or next to her body.

That story can be found at Howard Davis's site, the Zodiac Manson connection. About the fox tail, not to get off subject, but my poi put a small red ( plastic) fox , in my back yard many yrs ago. I couldn't make heads or tails ( excuse the pun) out of it. Then I remembered that Fox in Spanish is Zorro, a Z was his logo. So the fox left at the Gaul site could have been the Zodiac's way of leaving his calling card ?
Howard has some very interesting information at his site about victims that have been forgotten. These victims could very well be the work of Zodiac.
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PostSubject: Re: Unsolved Murder in Vallejo of George Pimental: Possible Connection to North Cal Murders and/or Zodiac?   Sat Apr 03, 2010 3:01 am

Regarding a possible language connection, its interesting to note that the victims name (Gaul) is the word for the ancient area that comprised France etc etc. Goes back to Roman times. A citizen of France is sometimes known as a Gaul.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaul
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PostSubject: Re: Unsolved Murder in Vallejo of George Pimental: Possible Connection to North Cal Murders and/or Zodiac?   Sat Apr 03, 2010 3:50 pm

In the American Sign Language the finger position we are discussing on the Halloween Card and the book cover of The Eye and the Finger represents the number 9 (which divided by 3 is 3 !!). Also the sign for the letter Z makes predominant use of a vertical index finger.

You use your eyes to read the fingers to understand a message.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Sign_Language_alphabet
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PostSubject: Re: Unsolved Murder in Vallejo of George Pimental: Possible Connection to North Cal Murders and/or Zodiac?   Sat Apr 03, 2010 4:10 pm

AK Wilks wrote:

The similarity is undeniable. Maybe Z was into this kind of writing. Wonder if any of these short stories have any clues that match up with Zodiac clues?
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PostSubject: Re: Unsolved Murder in Vallejo of George Pimental: Possible Connection to North Cal Murders and/or Zodiac?   Sat Apr 03, 2010 10:14 pm

Hoping EVERYONE keeps following this Thread....an looking for ideas.
Like the Eye Clew...seems rather large to ME*
Please read the whole thread, maybe we can discuss this as a team in
this evenings chat*
Thankz Zam*
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PostSubject: Re: Unsolved Murder in Vallejo of George Pimental: Possible Connection to North Cal Murders and/or Zodiac?   Sun Apr 04, 2010 12:25 am

morf13 wrote:
AK Wilks wrote:

The similarity is undeniable. Maybe Z was into this kind of writing. Wonder if any of these short stories have any clues that match up with Zodiac clues?

Just a coincidence imho. The image from the book cover is comprised of both paws of whatever creature that is, and the Halloween card skeleton is the one that came on the card, not the one Z added. Sure Z could have stumbled upon a card that somewhat matched the book cover (assuming the book was written prior) but it seems highly doubtful he would have, or even cared to for that matter.
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PostSubject: Re: Unsolved Murder in Vallejo of George Pimental: Possible Connection to North Cal Murders and/or Zodiac?   Sun Apr 04, 2010 12:29 am

Another case of Zyncronicity? I could see that
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PostSubject: Re: Unsolved Murder in Vallejo of George Pimental: Possible Connection to North Cal Murders and/or Zodiac?   Sun Apr 04, 2010 7:15 am

Well, I'm interested in the George Pimental death and am open to hearing more....IMO it's worth looking into any Vallejo area murders/crimes during the Z-era if there is anything unusual about the crimes.

Even if they are not Z related we may just stumble onto a new lead by looking into it. Also, if the Pimental death is murder and is an unsolved then there's no harm in checking it out ... maybe posters here can help solve that case, even if the Z never gets caught.

We almost always get to learn SOMETHING new when checking things out in this case, and that for me is partly why I find the Z case so fascinating... e.g. I've never heard of this Donald Wandrei fella before, and the Lovecraft connection also makes it interesting.

Based on what we have so far, it's difficult to contribute much to this thread.... I'm sorta waiting for one of you local folks to dig up some published information confirming whether it is worth looking into i.e. ....
1. Was George P. murdered? Need to confirm that & the date, location (via LE/press/coroner reports/death notices etc).
2. Details of what happened (can we confirm the "finger in eye socket" info). At the moment this is unconfirmed hearsay... I don't doubt Zam's source, but we need to firm up that info.
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PostSubject: Re: Unsolved Murder in Vallejo of George Pimental: Possible Connection to North Cal Murders and/or Zodiac?   Sun Apr 04, 2010 9:41 am

Rufus T Firefly wrote:

Even if they are not Z related we may just stumble onto a new lead by looking into it.

I agree wholeheartedly. I still have a stack of Napa Sentinel paperwork to dig through, though most of the meaty bits I've already posted on old the Zigazee forum.

Here again is the original article mentioning the George Pimental murder:

http://img692.imageshack.us/i/49093599.jpg/

http://img706.imageshack.us/i/13989070.jpg/

And here is my Image Shack file with all Zodiac related pages I have scanned.

http://profile.imageshack.us/user/pwzjlz/
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PostSubject: Re: Unsolved Murder in Vallejo of George Pimental: Possible Connection to North Cal Murders and/or Zodiac?   Sun Apr 04, 2010 10:25 am

bentley wrote:
..............And here is my Image Shack file with all Zodiac related pages I have scanned.
http://profile.imageshack.us/user/pwzjlz/
I think I can speak for all of us when I say "THANKS, BENTLEY!" for sharing the resources you've acquired (and for the work involved in scanning & uploading etc.). .... And cheers for the link to the Liz Kantner article that mentions the G. Pimental "mutilation murder".
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