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 UP IN SACRAMENTO?

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Quicktrader
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PostSubject: UP IN SACRAMENTO?   Thu Aug 30, 2012 1:56 am

"up by Sacramento"

So do you still live in Vallejo/Stockton, Z?

Below you find some articles from that time, not sure if anyone of those is related to the ZZZZ letter...

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morf13
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PostSubject: Re: UP IN SACRAMENTO?   Thu Aug 30, 2012 7:06 am

Nothing specifically Zodiac about these crimes. If we open up a newspaper, we could potentially call any violent crime a Zodiac crime if thats the case. Show me a case with anonymous letters or phonecalls, or car trouble ruzes, or couples killed on lovers lanes, then I am all ears

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PostSubject: Re: UP IN SACRAMENTO?   Thu Aug 30, 2012 5:29 pm

Morf,

actually when I compare all these cases I figure out:

- earring stealer (Alcala?)
- hog-tied raper
- lover's lane couple & without reason shooter (Z)
- car trouble maker (Bruce? CJB?)
- police officer pretender
- hitchhiking killer

...not all of them must be the same, still working on it. As I said, nothing special with these crimes, so what did the ZZZZletter writer mean with 'killed by the freeway'?

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PostSubject: Re: UP IN SACRAMENTO?   Thu Aug 30, 2012 6:50 pm

Keep digging, nothing wrong with that

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PostSubject: Re: UP IN SACRAMENTO?   Thu Aug 30, 2012 7:33 pm

Q.T.
I like your digging! Keep up the good work!
Zincerely, Zam*

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PostSubject: Re: UP IN SACRAMENTO?   Thu Aug 30, 2012 9:31 pm

QT - Where are getting 'up in Sacramento'? From the unconfirmed May 1986 letter?

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PostSubject: Re: UP IN SACRAMENTO?   Fri Aug 31, 2012 5:05 am

Was it May/March? Yes, from the 1986/1987 letters...ZZZZ writes 'up by Sacramento'....so he must've been a.) quite near b.) South of Sacramento when he wrote these letters.

Unless proven to be a hoax, the letters could indeed be authentic as there are some indications for that:

- Z used to make breaks with his letter writing, sometimes over years
- the handwriting in my opinion is really good if not fully authentic
- spelling errors, Z imho was dyslexic
- the words Z chose, e.g. mentioning blue meannies, this is the Z speaking etc.
- quite authentic drawing of the crossed circle
- writing of the body count with a 'minus' and SFPD

The habit of Z to be dyslexic has not yet been discussed a lot...usually dyslexic people had not much support in these days for treatment. It could however have been a reason for him to go to e.g. Latterman Hospital. Also a dyslexic person would've had hard times to write for the SF Chronicle. Was there ever somebody being fired for his dyslexia?

Even today dyslexia must not necessarily be treatable. People who knew Z from e.g. school or who lived together with him probably knew that Z was a dyslexic.

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PostSubject: Re: UP IN SACRAMENTO?   Fri Aug 31, 2012 11:13 am

In re the 1986 letter apparently the expert at the Cal Justice Dept confirmed it as probably authentic. That expert is said to be Terrence Pascoe, also known as Terry Pascoe. I have since talked to two different people who say Pascoe told them it was a confirmed Zodiac letter. It does look like Z writing, to my unexpert eye. And it lacks a zip code, something Zsearcher says he noticed on all the confirmed Z envelopes up to that point. Yet it never got any publicity. The 1986 date also makes it suspect to some as matching the Graysmith paperback, but he never mentioned it.

The handwriting does appear to match. Doug Oswell, among others, noted the mostly unoriginal content of the text, leading him to think it a probable fake. The majority of posters at the Zodiac Killer Facts message board think it is probably fake and so do the majority here. And perhaps they are right, but at least four things hold me back from being 100% sure it was a fake:

1. The Cal Justice expert Terry Pascoe apparently thought it was probably real and is said to have confirmed it as a real Zodiac letter. And it looks like Z writing.

2. It somewhat fits a rough pattern of letters appearing about every four years: Three confirmed Z letters in 1974, three (probably mostly or all fake) Z letters in 1978, several unconfirmed Z letters mentioning the Atlanta child murders in 1981/1982, this 1986 Z letter and the 1990 Eureka Z Xmas card and celebrity cipher card.

3. There is compelling evidence Zodiac suspect Ted Kaczynski was in Northern California the year of the 1990 cards, and it is documented he was in Sacramento around the time of this letter, as he killed a man with a bomb there in December 1985. In this 1986 letter Zodiac mentions having just killed people in Sacramento by a freeway, and Ted Kaczynski had just killed a man via a bomb in Sacramento by a freeway on December 11, 1985. Ted used the same Christmas tree stamp as used on the 1990 envelope, and he also used the exact same flag stamp as used on this 1986 envelope in two letters in 1985. I go into this in depth in the Kaczynski POI section, so I will not mention this possible angle again here.

4. It appears thanks to thebigZ that the postmark is May 6, if so that is just two days after the murder in Orange County of Janelle Lisa Cruz by the man who was the East Area Rapist who terrorized Sacramento and then became the Original Night Stalker who killed in Southern California.





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PostSubject: Re: UP IN SACRAMENTO?   Fri Aug 31, 2012 11:40 am

I have felt that the 1986 letter, hoax or not, was written in reference to the killings by Roger Kibbe. It is believed that Kibbe was responsible for more deaths than he was ultimately convicted of committing.

Here's a piece that I did on Kibbe for another project.


ROGER REECE KIBBE

Born: May 21, 1939 Currently serving life without possibility of parole at Pleasant Valley State Prison Coalinga, CA.

TIME: 1977 – 1986

RAISED: Kibbe was the oldest of three boys raised in Chula Vista, California. His father was in the Navy, drafted during WWII, after retiring in 1953 from the Navy he was employed by the postal service. Because of the fathers military service Kibbe was largely raised in his younger years by his mother who really didn't like him very much. His mother was a hospital nurse. He was physically and verbally abused by her. Kibbe was a stutterer. At 15 he was caught burying a box of women's clothing that he had stolen from clotheslines. These clothes had been cut in an unusual manner with medical scissors stolen from his mother. One of Kibbe's brothers became a police officer rising to a homicide detective. Kibbe was close to this brother and they would often talk about homicide cases even some of the murders that Kibbe was eventually charged with. The brother had no idea that Roger was a serial killer.

EDUCATION: Kibbe was a high school dropout in the 11th grade and was a poor student in reading and writing but excelled in mechanical engineering and shop work. As an adult he was skilled in the woodworking and welding trades. He was teased in school by the other kids, called dumbbell and chided for his stuttering. At some point in adulthood he took up skydiving and was accomplished at that.

IQ: Unknown, likely he had learning disabilities that were undiagnosed but he was not stupid.

VICTIM CLASS: The victims were generally motorists that Kibbe conned into pulling over or were already pulled over because of car trouble. They were mainly middle class but a prostitute or two were among the victims. They ranged in age from 17 – 29. Victims were strangled with their own clothing or stabbed. The common thread in all of the murders were the nonfunctional cutting of clothing.

Kibbe was tried, convicted and sentenced for one murder in 1991. Other murders that he was suspected of doing could not be tried for one reason or another mainly involving admissible evidence. He was sentenced to 25 years to life. He came up for parole in 2004 and was denied but when he came up for parole again in 2008 law enforcement was ready. He was charged with six more murders. Through plea bargaining he plead guilty to all of the murders in exchange for dropping the death penalty. Kibbe was only charged with murders where the dysfunctional cutting of clothing was apparent. They were more murders that he was suspected of committing.

NUMBERS: Convicted of 7 murders, suspected of many more.


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