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 MISC. Unconfirmed letters from Zodiac FBI files

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morf13
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PostSubject: MISC. Unconfirmed letters from Zodiac FBI files   Sun Aug 19, 2012 3:41 pm

Here are some assorted writings taken from the recently released FBI files. Curious to see what people have to say about them...

This first one gives a return address, and a destination name & address to work with (anybody else see anything that looks a bit like the Bates had to die letters?)


This next one, could it be a cipher of some sort?


Here is a double stamped envelope, postmarked in Oakland in October, 1969, mailed to somebody in Redding:

The envelope above may go with one or more of these letters below:

















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"Back when I was picking beans in Guatemala, we used to make fresh coffee, right off the trees I mean. That was good. This is shit but, hey, I'm in a police station"
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Quicktrader
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PostSubject: Re: MISC. Unconfirmed letters from Zodiac FBI files   Sun Aug 19, 2012 4:24 pm

Very similar handwriting, he admits to having killed people, mentions 'mass killing' which is underlined a few times.

Scaring..

QT
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PostSubject: Re: MISC. Unconfirmed letters from Zodiac FBI files   Sun Aug 19, 2012 4:26 pm

This first one has Lubbock Texas address reminds you of where the saying came from fiddle faddle around The second cipher one reminds me of the Beale treasure code.
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PostSubject: Re: MISC. Unconfirmed letters from Zodiac FBI files   Sun Aug 19, 2012 4:27 pm

StitchMallone wrote:
This first one has Lubbock Texas address reminds you of where the saying came from fiddle faddle around The second cipher one reminds me of the Beale treasure code.

Good point, I remember them saying that about FIDDLE & FART AROUND

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PostSubject: Re: MISC. Unconfirmed letters from Zodiac FBI files   Sun Aug 19, 2012 4:54 pm

It may have started in Texas but was country wide by the 60s decade. Older relatives of mine say they've heard that saying for many years before Z came on the scene.It may even be from Civil War era when fiddles were most popular. No- Jack did not bring it to Calif. with him. Not that he's been mentioned in this thread- Yet.
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PostSubject: Re: MISC. Unconfirmed letters from Zodiac FBI files   Sun Aug 19, 2012 5:00 pm

zodio wrote:
It may have started in Texas but was country wide by the 60s decade. Older relatives of mine say they've heard that saying for many years before Z came on the scene.It may even be from Civil War era when fiddles were most popular. No- Jack did not bring it to Calif. with him. Not that he's been mentioned in this thread- Yet.
True I've actually heard the saying here in Pennsylvania in the 70's.
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PostSubject: Re: MISC. Unconfirmed letters from Zodiac FBI files   Sun Aug 19, 2012 5:03 pm

Morf are these writings all from the same person ?
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PostSubject: Re: MISC. Unconfirmed letters from Zodiac FBI files   Sun Aug 19, 2012 5:05 pm

StitchMallone wrote:
Morf are these writings all from the same person ?

Not sure, they dont really tell us. They are gathered altogether in one section but I think they are from multiple people.

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Coming to you from some place in Z Land.

"Back when I was picking beans in Guatemala, we used to make fresh coffee, right off the trees I mean. That was good. This is shit but, hey, I'm in a police station"
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PostSubject: Re: MISC. Unconfirmed letters from Zodiac FBI files   Sun Aug 19, 2012 5:13 pm

morf13 wrote:
StitchMallone wrote:
Morf are these writings all from the same person ?

Not sure, they dont really tell us. They are gathered altogether in one section but I think they are from multiple people.
A lot of the later ones seemed liked the same person to me writing his wife but could be wrong. Anyhow they look fairly similar to Z writing and also noticed the right downward slant to most of the letters that Z had.
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PostSubject: Re: MISC. Unconfirmed letters from Zodiac FBI files   Sun Aug 19, 2012 5:26 pm

Beale Treasure Code and this one.
[img][/img][img][/img]
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PostSubject: Re: MISC. Unconfirmed letters from Zodiac FBI files   Mon Aug 20, 2012 1:39 am

Beale is rather a book cipher...what you see is actually a Vigenère cipher matrix.

All figures are aligned in a certain pattern...this pattern interrupts as shown with the different colored lines below. Someone could even 'cut' the green parts and attach them each on the top/bottom of the cipher to let the number rows continue in their order..this shows where 'A' had moved to, presumably to the number '1`of the cipher matrix - so the Vigenere alphabet has been moved some positions (10) to the right.

21 rows, 21 lines - the number '21' is written below..multiplication leads to a total of 441 numbers > the number is 4641 is mentioned as well. I guess the writer did not use some letters, leading to the 21 Vigenere. Ok, let's go for the cipher:

The archaic latin alphabet had 21 letters, solution therefore could or could not be in latin. To solve such a cipher actually requires two things:

1. The cipher text itself (e.g. something like 'NVMCG ZB NEFG' or 'NVMCGZBNEFG')
2. The 'key' to solve the cipher, e.g. the cipher key word 'ZODIAC'

If this cipher is a Vigenère, both is needed as such a cipher is polyalphabetical, meaning that each letter of the secret message is connected to another letter which is positioned differently, depending on the position of the alphabet. According to a cipher key word, this position can vary for each letter.

A possibility is that whoever wrote this cipher didn't use a key at all, instead simply scrolled the Vigenère matrix 10 positions to the right. This would lead to a simple Ceasars cipher and one could easily decipher the cipher text by substituting the letters. Usually the clear text is written on top, the cipher key on the left side to get the clear text.

Update:
Meanwhile I could figure out that the cipher key can exist either of words (e.g. 'ZODIAC') or numbers ('221') or the alphabet itself. The alphabet (for encryption reasons) had been scrolled 10 positions to the right and - in addition to that - each letter column (B,C,...) is following in the next but one column. Therefore it may be assumed, that the movement of the alphabetical positioning is used as the cipher key.

Below you find the encryption of my nickname as an example, both ways (with 'ZODIAC' cipher key as well as with the alphabet as the cipher key).

If you have a key to decrypt, please don´t hesitate to post...symbol ciphers such as the 340-cipher won't go, as we don't know anything about an 'alphabetical order' of Z's cipher symbols.








If the figure matrix came with the postcard, the text written in capital letters could be the cipher key ('SPECIALDELIVERY'). Nevertheless we need a cipher to use..

BTW, if Z used a Vigenère to encrypt his message in e.g. the 340-cipher, the length of the cipher key must have been one of the following: 3,7,9,21 as it can be shown that triple accidential repetitions are extremly rare. The 408 has two of such triple letter 'dump-n-grams' (see Oranchak webtoy for details). The only common factors of the - distance - of those triple letter cipher parts lead to the must-be length of the cipher key. The cipher key therefore could not have been the word ZODIAC (as it has 6 letters).

QT


Last edited by Quicktrader on Mon Aug 20, 2012 9:49 am; edited 14 times in total
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PostSubject: Re: MISC. Unconfirmed letters from Zodiac FBI files   Mon Aug 20, 2012 3:31 am

Looks like our Killer for Hire was called "Rusty"

Love it when they miss a redaction Very Happy


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PostSubject: Re: MISC. Unconfirmed letters from Zodiac FBI files   Mon Aug 20, 2012 3:49 am

traveller1st wrote:
Looks like our Killer for Hire was called "Rusty"

Love it when they miss a redaction Very Happy


Yeah, I saw that....you beat me to the post Smile
Cool Stuff to read. It's interesting to see some of things looked at back then!
THX Morf for getting this for us!
And THX Trav for the putting it in easy to read files!

Zincerely, Zam*

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PostSubject: Re: MISC. Unconfirmed letters from Zodiac FBI files   Mon Aug 20, 2012 3:58 am

I see 2 Phillips 66


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PostSubject: Re: MISC. Unconfirmed letters from Zodiac FBI files   Mon Aug 20, 2012 4:07 am

Seen that as well. If it's the map then they must have been standard issue for killers of the day. Smile

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PostSubject: Re: MISC. Unconfirmed letters from Zodiac FBI files   Mon Aug 20, 2012 4:28 am

Zamantha wrote:
traveller1st wrote:
Looks like our Killer for Hire was called "Rusty"

Love it when they miss a redaction Very Happy


Yeah, I saw that....you beat me to the post Smile
Cool Stuff to read. It's interesting to see some of things looked at back then!
THX Morf for getting this for us!
And THX Trav for the putting it in easy to read files!

Zincerely, Zam*


My-name-is-cipher:

AENZ8K8M8TNAM

RUSTYHY_Y_SR_

Probably a nickname, if Z at all.

QT
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PostSubject: Re: MISC. Unconfirmed letters from Zodiac FBI files   Mon Aug 20, 2012 8:41 am

Yeah,

Nickname is what I'm thinking too. Nice work in the vigenere grid stuff btw.

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PostSubject: Re: MISC. Unconfirmed letters from Zodiac FBI files   Mon Aug 20, 2012 9:48 am

I think it goes without saying that this stuff needs to be taken with a grain of salt i.e. just because it's in the FBI files on Zodiac doesn't mean it has anything to do with the case. The FBI was undoubtedly sent tons of suspicious letters from random nuts and outright hoaxes to try to sort through and determine whether they were relevant to the case. Some of the unconfirmed documents might be legit... most are not.

It's fabulous to be able to see all of this stuff and morf deserves huge kudos for getting it. Just sayin' that we should keep in mind while looking for connections that a lot of this stuff may only be in the FBI files because someone felt it seems suspicious and sent it to the FBI.
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PostSubject: Re: MISC. Unconfirmed letters from Zodiac FBI files   Mon Aug 20, 2012 9:57 am

entropy wrote:
I think it goes without saying that this stuff needs to be taken with a grain of salt i.e. just because it's in the FBI files on Zodiac doesn't mean it has anything to do with the case. The FBI was undoubtedly sent tons of suspicious letters from random nuts and outright hoaxes to try to sort through and determine whether they were relevant to the case. Some of the unconfirmed documents might be legit... most are not.

It's fabulous to be able to see all of this stuff and morf deserves huge kudos for getting it. Just sayin' that we should keep in mind while looking for connections that a lot of this stuff may only be in the FBI files because someone felt it seems suspicious and sent it to the FBI.

Totally get that and agree.

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PostSubject: Re: MISC. Unconfirmed letters from Zodiac FBI files   Mon Aug 20, 2012 10:26 am

Thought the Phillips 66 thing was interesting,good catch. According to the FBI,we now have ALL of the FBI's files for the Zodiac case,or at least the ones that they are willing to disclose to the public,which bums me out because I know they likely have more,which I would love to see.

Also, regarding the name 'RUSTY' a few posts back,maybe short for RUSSELL?

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PostSubject: Re: MISC. Unconfirmed letters from Zodiac FBI files   Mon Aug 20, 2012 10:29 am

Rusty could be a nickname, but I went to High School with a kid named Rusty Ford, real name, no nick.
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PostSubject: Re: MISC. Unconfirmed letters from Zodiac FBI files   Mon Aug 20, 2012 10:42 am

If he was mob then his middle name was probably rusty in the way that they have middle nicknames like Louis "basher" Vialli (I made that up so don't google it lol).

Maybe he had reddish hair, ok that's kinda interesting or he killed with rust knives or he squeeked when he walked.

Take this guy as an example. Philip "Rusty" Rastelli


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philip_Rastelli

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PostSubject: Re: MISC. Unconfirmed letters from Zodiac FBI files   Mon Aug 20, 2012 5:43 pm



In Darlene Ferrin's phonebook there is a:

http://www.zodiackiller.com/DeeBook15.html

Dan (or Don) Rust
CMR #3 Bas (or Bay, or Bar) 4675
Travis A.F.B. Calif



Could this guy's nick name be Rusty?
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PostSubject: Re: MISC. Unconfirmed letters from Zodiac FBI files   Tue Aug 21, 2012 2:18 am

Theforeigner wrote:


In Darlene Ferrin's phonebook there is a:

http://www.zodiackiller.com/DeeBook15.html

Dan (or Don) Rust
CMR #3 Bas (or Bay, or Bar) 4675
Travis A.F.B. Calif



Could this guy's nick name be Rusty?

Nice find...I like the idea of Rusty being a 'Rust' / having reddish hair..A.F.B. is also some match and is it her last entry in the R section, too. No phone number.

QT
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PostSubject: Re: MISC. Unconfirmed letters from Zodiac FBI files   Tue Aug 21, 2012 4:25 am

"Why --oil --- --me?" from the Halloween Card. Because I'm RUSTY!
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