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 I.B.F.'s POI Handwriting vs. KNOWN Zodiac Correspondence

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PostSubject: I.B.F.'s POI Handwriting vs. KNOWN Zodiac Correspondence   Mon Apr 02, 2012 10:32 pm

Hello All,

I have been off the forum for many months but have checked in once and a while.

I was in NYC in November 2011 where I met Mike Rodelli ( Nice guy! Wish we would have had more time, though!), Kananaskis and The Phillipines where I was working until late March.

While gone I received some materials that more than piqued my interest in respect to a POI I have been developing.

He responded( On Monarch sized paper ...no less!!) to my solicitation( thanks Morf, for the idea) with a partially handwritten and computer printed response, which was less than I had hoped for!!

2 weeks ago I heard from someone I contacted in 2010 with regard to a handwritten letter from this POI from 1975.

The letter has several, IMHO, somewhat or direct matches in Handwriting to known Zodiac correspondences.

I can not say much about this POI as he is living ( 71 Yrs old), has my address Shocked , and I have submitted info
(or will submit info) to VPD, SCSD, SFPD amongst others.

I will give a GENERAL overview and then post individual and word comparisons from the two handwritten envelopes, letters and material I have acquired.


Suspect "scribe";

5'9"-5'10" 165-190 lbs Age 71 Born in 1941 Glasses, Red-Brown receding/receded hairline

Worked for SF Chronicle in the 1960's as did friends and relatives.

Lived in Southern California, Berkeley, San Francisco and San Bernadino/Santa Clarita.

Career Newsman/Media Editor

Possible Miltary Service/Exemption due to infirmity

At least 2 convictions in California between 1965-70

"Involved" himself in several HIGH ( I mean...the HIGHEST !!) profile cases/hearings involving Melvin Belli, and is on file with FBI in relation to this "involvement"

I am reluctant to give more details as this would not be prudent at ths time but I wanted to at least give some background to the suspect timeline/characteristics before asking for all of your input with respect to the following comparisons.

IBF

1st Comparison: POI 1975 (top) to Zodiac "A Citizen" letter 1974 (bottom)- Letter "n"





2nd Comparison: POI 1975 (top) to Zodiac SF Examiner 1968 letter (bottom)- Letter "r"





3rd Comparison: POI 1975 (top) to Zodiac " A citizen" letter 1974( bottom)- Letter "o"





I will submit more later as time permits. LMK what you all think.
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PostSubject: Re: I.B.F.'s POI Handwriting vs. KNOWN Zodiac Correspondence   Mon Apr 02, 2012 11:19 pm

Hi Bonus,

I really hope it's him cause he's alive, and hopefully not senile, so we can the answer to that bloody 340 cipher.

Regarding the letter-forms you've presented. My initial thoughts are that whilst they similar in construction, the lowercase r being the least similar (Zodiac's have that little hook), the application (slant) doesn't match to my mind. With the exception of a few, possibly less than two, of Zodiac's missives they all pretty much followed a forward slanting pattern. Even in these few examples you can see that whereas your POI's writing is more upright and consistently so across the few samples.

Just some observations. I'm sure there may be the age factor to consider but I wonder if someones handwriting might be slightly more untidy with age and not neater - I don't know, just thinking out loud.

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PostSubject: Re: I.B.F.'s POI Handwriting vs. KNOWN Zodiac Correspondence   Tue Apr 03, 2012 6:44 am

IBF, sounds great. I would like to see MORE of the writing samples however as opposed to certain letters. Hope you can share or post more.

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PostSubject: Re: I.B.F.'s POI Handwriting vs. KNOWN Zodiac Correspondence   Tue Apr 03, 2012 11:12 am

Morf,

Will post some whole words/sentences but can not post the entire source material as it is too recognizable and there are letterhead/name issues throughout.

I do think everyone should have a look at what I can post later today and you should check your in box now.

IBF
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PostSubject: Re: I.B.F.'s POI Handwriting vs. KNOWN Zodiac Correspondence   Tue Apr 03, 2012 11:55 am

POI -1975- " his"



Zodiac- 1974- A Citizen- "his"



POI- 1975- "was"



Zodiac- SF Examiner 1968-" was"



POI- 1975- "b"



Zodiac- 1974- A Citizen- "b"


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PostSubject: Re: I.B.F.'s POI Handwriting vs. KNOWN Zodiac Correspondence   Tue Apr 03, 2012 1:16 pm

In Bonus Fides wrote:
POI -1975- " his"



Zodiac- 1974- A Citizen- "his"



POI- 1975- "was"



Zodiac- SF Examiner 1968-" was"



POI- 1975- "b"



Zodiac- 1974- A Citizen- "b"



As I told you on the side, the Zodiac's writing is all printed,and the material you are showing is in cursive. Although it looks somewhat similar, 3 writing experts told me that you can NOT accurately get a match between a person's cursive & their printed writing

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Coming to you from some place in Z Land.

"Back when I was picking beans in Guatemala, we used to make fresh coffee, right off the trees I mean. That was good. This is shit but, hey, I'm in a police station"
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PostSubject: Re: I.B.F.'s POI Handwriting vs. KNOWN Zodiac Correspondence   Tue Apr 03, 2012 2:41 pm

I always find the research I.B.F. seems to tap into interesting!
Always appreciate when he shares his findings with us Smile

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PostSubject: Re: I.B.F.'s POI Handwriting vs. KNOWN Zodiac Correspondence   Tue Apr 03, 2012 5:14 pm

I find the 'b' very interesting - in similarity and also since it looks unusual to start with.
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PostSubject: Re: I.B.F.'s POI Handwriting vs. KNOWN Zodiac Correspondence   Tue Apr 03, 2012 5:20 pm

Me too, Luke!

Wish I could describe the letterhead it was on!!!!

I have been told comparisons from cursive
To printed are not possible but my POI's writing
(although from a limited sample size) tends to be a "hybrid"
Style .....half printed- half cursive.

I will post more later.

IBF
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PostSubject: Re: I.B.F.'s POI Handwriting vs. KNOWN Zodiac Correspondence   Wed Apr 04, 2012 10:48 am

morf13 wrote:
IBF, sounds great. I would like to see MORE of the writing samples however as opposed to certain letters. Hope you can share or post more.

Why does this sound great? IBF: What about your POI says "the Zodiac" to you? How does your POI explain things about the case that we didn't understand before your POI came to light? These kinds of questions are so rarely addressed when people raise new POIs. And they seem crucial to me. Z left so many clues about who he was and what he was about. Surely a serious POI sheds light on those clues.
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PostSubject: Re: I.B.F.'s POI Handwriting vs. KNOWN Zodiac Correspondence   Wed Apr 04, 2012 11:41 am

rand wrote:
morf13 wrote:
IBF, sounds great. I would like to see MORE of the writing samples however as opposed to certain letters. Hope you can share or post more.

Why does this sound great? IBF: What about your POI says "the Zodiac" to you? How does your POI explain things about the case that we didn't understand before your POI came to light? These kinds of questions are so rarely addressed when people raise new POIs. And they seem crucial to me. Z left so many clues about who he was and what he was about. Surely a serious POI sheds light on those clues.

I think what he is getting at is that his POI was involved in the news industry,and had a connection to the word ZODIAC. And best of all, he can prove where his POI was in 1969. Very Happy

"Z left so many clues about who he was and what he was about" How do you know this?? Thats your own opinion. Z may have been feeding everyone a line of BS, and giving you info he wanted you to have. Everyone can speculate on what Z was and who he was, and what degree of mental illness he had, but nobody really knows.

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Coming to you from some place in Z Land.

"Back when I was picking beans in Guatemala, we used to make fresh coffee, right off the trees I mean. That was good. This is shit but, hey, I'm in a police station"
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PostSubject: Re: I.B.F.'s POI Handwriting vs. KNOWN Zodiac Correspondence   Wed Apr 04, 2012 12:22 pm

If Z didn't leave any clues -- if we are simply to discard all the letters, etc -- as simply misleading things that Z did, then all we can say is that Z was a bad man who operated in the Bay Area from late 1968-Fall 1969. If that's all, then I see nothing interesting in this case and no way to solve it other than fingerprints and DNA.

There are so many interesting clues, so many details that make this a special case. It is precisely those details that fascinate us; they're the reasons why we're here on this site. Reducing this case to merely POIs that were bad people who lived in the Bay Area makes no sense to me. It completely misuderstands what makes Z different from most other run-of-the-mill mass murderers. To suggest that "Z may have been feeding everyone a line of BS, and giving you info he wanted you to have" is as true as it is banal.
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PostSubject: Re: I.B.F.'s POI Handwriting vs. KNOWN Zodiac Correspondence   Wed Apr 04, 2012 3:19 pm

Rand,

Always respect your insights but as my POI is LIVING, still in the Bay Area and knows my home address ( which is relevent and prominent in the few writing samples I have) , I am unable to PUBLICLY discuss a lot of the details about this POI.

Until he dies, is arrested, sues for libel and loses or confesses then I will have to refrain from sharing much more than the most general details about him.

You have the luxury of posting about a dead man who can not read what you have written, reply, contact his/her attorney, sue you or even harm or kill you.

If I felt that you were more open minded and less myopic with respect to your own POI, I might be inclined to share more via PM or email, as I do respect your intellect and eye for detail.

IBF

P.S.
I can post about dead guys too!! ( **** THIS IS NOT MY POI, JUST A POINT******)

I always felt that the deceased Reverend Col. William P Gale, Houghton's co-conspirator in the M.M. and general racist, libertarian and bigot, makes for a better suspect than Troy Houghton ever did.

He resembles the SFPD composite as much as any other suspect ( certainly more than TH) and I can prove he was both ALIVE and in the Bay Area in 1969, advocating violence, with a penchant for publishing and 30 + years of top end military training to act with.

(I did not randomly choose my POI, the evidence led me to him.......and he is alive. I did not change or enhance this man's background to fit the details of the case......his timeline, history, work history and government files fit the nuances of this case as is, where is.)

I can go on and on and further impugn the dead man but the stakes are a bit different between "SCRIBE" -my POI and Troy Houghton.

He won't be able to tell the surviving family members or desendants anything they dont already know about their loved one's last moments or final words, there will be no trial, no additional victims bodies to be led to, no Movies Of The Week, etc, etc......you get my point.

My guy may be able to.......

Here is Rev. Col. William P Gale, see for yourself-

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PostSubject: Re: I.B.F.'s POI Handwriting vs. KNOWN Zodiac Correspondence   Wed Apr 04, 2012 3:26 pm

Rand, you mentioned "Z left so many clues about who he was and what he was about"

Do I think that clues can be found that can tell us about him? Sure I do. We could learn that he only mails letters on certain days of the week from certain locations, etc which could tell us a bit about his job or routine. We can tell that he uses certain types of ammo that is only sold at certain locations, which could help us understand where he might shoot his guns, or he may tell us that he was "swamped out" which could tell us if he lived in a certain area. Then there are obvious things like his movie references, Gilbert & Sullivan, Most Dangerous Games, etc

But here's the problem that I see- When 4 people with 4 different suspects/POI's look at the same Zodiac letter, let's use the Halloween card for example, we get 4 different explanations of what the clues mean, because each person is looking for something that connects it to their own personal suspect. That's the problem with 'MOST' people that have a favorite suspect. They look at the clues & evidence thru rose colored glasses. We have seen it over & over, time and time again, most recently when one member here announced to the world that the case was solved!!! Only to find out, it wasnt.

For the people that do not have a favorite suspect or POI, I dont balme you, you can look at stuff objectively with no agenda. I myself have looked at dozens of POI's in the hopes of nailing them down to a couple, and although I have a couple favorites, I try to remain objective, and open minded, and will happily drop any POI that I find if they can be ruled out.

Zodiac wrote the papers, that shows he might have been involved with the papers. IBF's POI was involved with the papers. Zodiac chose the name from someplace(open to endless debate), and IBF's POI was involved with something sorrounding the word ZODIAC. IBF has gathered materials about his POI, and continues to. So far, I dont see anything to rule his POI out.

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"Back when I was picking beans in Guatemala, we used to make fresh coffee, right off the trees I mean. That was good. This is shit but, hey, I'm in a police station"
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PostSubject: Re: I.B.F.'s POI Handwriting vs. KNOWN Zodiac Correspondence   Wed Apr 04, 2012 5:38 pm

IBF,

I recall something about a Zodiac related missive, I don't think one of the canonical letters, somehow 'appearing' at the Chron without postage, which of course would be easy for someone on the inside. I wish I could remember more details, maybe someone else does.
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PostSubject: Re: I.B.F.'s POI Handwriting vs. KNOWN Zodiac Correspondence   Thu Apr 05, 2012 1:58 pm

rand wrote:
If Z didn't leave any clues -- if we are simply to discard all the letters, etc -- as simply misleading things that Z did, then all we can say is that Z was a bad man who operated in the Bay Area from late 1968-Fall 1969. If that's all, then I see nothing interesting in this case and no way to solve it other than fingerprints and DNA.

Damn straight! That is exactly what should be used. Fingerprints and DNA.

All that other hoopla is just that. While we enjoy looking into it and creating theories, we could very well be creating these theories off bogus information.

I for one now believe without a shadow of a doubt the Halloween Card is NOT Zodiac. NOT here to argue that fact. I'm just saying, if this is true, how much wasted time and effort? And for what? What is anyone going to prove with that card? Not a damn thing. It's all hoopla. Get DNA from a stamp...now you're talking.

IBF--Thanks for sharing your POI info. It's appreciated. His hair definitely looks more like what Fouke described!

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