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PostSubject: Re: Fred Manalli   Wed Sep 12, 2012 5:09 pm

Probably between Fall 1953 until he graduated in Spring 1957. That covers four years of college. He was born in 1935 so would have been 18 when he graduated from high school in 1953 then attending college that Fall.
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PostSubject: Re: Fred Manalli   Wed Sep 12, 2012 5:20 pm

Thanks Deb,

Just spotted this in your post on the 1st page of this thread. Nothing to do with my previous question BTW.



Very similar to this.




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PostSubject: Re: Fred Manalli   Wed Sep 12, 2012 6:26 pm

morf13 wrote:
This is the most unusual comparison in my opinion, between Zodiac & Manalli. Neither Z, or Manalli usually made their letter K's like this. But it seems as if they both made an exception and did it at least onece, and they almost mirror each other as if they were specially designed. I call it the 'special K' comparison, because they are both really unusual. One has a curl on the top, and the other has the same exact curl on the bottom.

Just reading this whole thread again. I recommend anyone interested in this to do the same. I'm quite stunned by the similarities and I'd forgotten about half them so re-reading has been great.

I'm quoting Morf here because I wasn't sure if anyone was seeing the mirror thing as I was. This is an example of exactly what I was seeing in Manalli's writing and I must have missed it first time round.

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PostSubject: Re: Fred Manalli   Wed Sep 12, 2012 6:44 pm

morf13 wrote:
Seagull wrote:
You posted them here Morf Rolling Eyes

http://zodiackillersite.forummotion.com/t280p30-sonoma-county

there's one more on the page following the above page!

Thanks!




He was at Durand HS in 61. He was Faculty Director

This is probably me loosing it but notice the connection between the word in Finnegan's Wake and the second image in this post?


By me in the past
Quote :
I'm looking at few things at once and I keep finding things because all these things seem to overlap. Another once from Finnegans Wake


A bone, a pebble, a ramskin; chip them,
chap them, cut them up allways;


taken in giving the saloot, band your hands going in, bind your heads coming out, and remoltked to
herselp in her serf's alown, a weerpovy willowy dreevy drawly and the patter of
so familiars, farabroads and behomeans, as she shure sknows, boof for a booby,
boo:

Schottenly there was a hellfire club kicked out through the wasistas of
Thereswhere.

And the chicks picked their teeths and the dombkey he begay began. You can ask
your ass if he believes it.

And so like that former son of a kish who went up
and out to found his farmer's ashes we come down home gently on our own
turnedabout asses to meet Margareen.

Hello! Tittit! Tell your title?

he plunged both of his newly anointed hands

Arise, Land-under-Wave!

Not true what chronicles is bringing his portemanteau priamed full potato wards.

Tip. And it is surely a lesser ignorance to write a word with every consonant too few than to add all too many. The end?
Say it with missiles then and thus arabesque the page. You have your cup of scalding Souchong, your taper's waxen drop,
your cat's paw, the clove or coffinnail you chewed or champed as you worded it, your lark in clear air. So why, pray, sign anything
as long as every word, letter, penstroke, paperspace is a perfect signature of its own?

tell that old frankay boyuk to bellows upthe tombucky in his tumtum argan and give us a gust of his gushy old. Goof!

Note
his sleek hair, so elegant, tableau vivant. He vows her to be his own honeylamb,
swears they will be papa pals, by Sam, and share good times way down west in a
guaranteed happy lovenest when May moon she shines and they twit twinkle all the
night, combing the comet's tail up right and shooting popguns at the stars.

that royal pair in
their palace of quicken boughs hight The Goat ant Compasses ('phone number
17:69, if you want to know 4)

Like pudging a spoon fist of sugans into a sotspot of choucolout. the
virtuoser prays, olorum What the D.V. would I to that for? That's a goosey's
ganswer you're for giving me, he is told, what the Deva would you do that for? 1
Now, sknow royol road to Puddlin, take your mut for a first beginning, big to
bog, back to bach. Anny liffle mud which cometh out of Mam will doob, I guess.
A.I. Amnium instar. And to find a locus for an alp get a howlth on her bayrings
as a prisme O and for a second O unbox your compasses. I cain but are you able?
Amicably nod. Gu it! So let's seth off betwain us. Prompty? Mux your pistany at
a point of the coastmap to be called a but pronounced olfa
. There's the isle of
Mun, ah! O! Tis just. Bene! Now, whole in applepine odrer

I see now. We move in the beast circuls. Grimbarb and pancercrucer! You took
the words out of my mouth. A child's dread for a dragon vicefather. Hillcloud
encompass us!


Bully, his Ballade Imaginaire which was to be dubbed Wine, Woman and Waterclocks, or How a
Guy Finks and Fawkes When He Is Going Batty, by Maistre Sheames de la Plume,
some most dreadful stuff in a murderous mirrorhand)

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PostSubject: Re: Fred Manalli   Wed Sep 12, 2012 7:02 pm

morf13 wrote:
Is this a simple typo from manalli for the word CHRISTMAS?

You can actually see that he corrected it, and then still misspelled it.

Yup started to write Chiri.

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PostSubject: Re: Fred Manalli   Wed Sep 12, 2012 7:06 pm

morf13 wrote:
morf13 wrote:
Manalli using one of Zodiac's favorite words, SHALL


One more for the collection from Manalli-

I missed this first-time round. affraid

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PostSubject: Re: Fred Manalli   Wed Sep 12, 2012 7:23 pm

morf13 wrote:
Some more misc. Manalli quotes that may be of interest. These all have to do with his mental & physical shape and conditions as reported by him.




















Trav asked, could any of these medical issues make Manalli walk a bit weird? Also, regarding his 'fainting spells', could they be some sort of black outs?

The part where it mentions about low blood pressure - 3rd or 4th down in the images. "Appeared to be shaking" "are you nervous" not quite sure of the question "I guess I am?"

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PostSubject: Re: Fred Manalli   Wed Sep 12, 2012 7:36 pm

morf13 wrote:
This post will contain all of Manallis threats, violent statements, or his discussion of violent acts:







Best for last:







The first image in this post showing a quote by Descart. I think this an insult to Dan Curley or at least a reference to the "Wolfey" incident. I can't quite work out who wrote which letter though. One reads like the letter Manalli sent to Dan but then the other reads like a reply from Dan written by Manalli? Some one pls figure it out lol.

It's on one of the typed letters

Oh it's not Descart, it's Shakespeare "To thine own self be true"

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PostSubject: Re: Fred Manalli   Wed Sep 12, 2012 7:47 pm

Manalli is Definitely worth a 'refresher' course. I also found other stuff I missed when I went back thru

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PostSubject: Re: Fred Manalli   Thu Sep 13, 2012 2:13 am

morf13 wrote:
Manalli writes about a guy named Dostoievski in one of his letters. As it turns out, on an old ZK.com thread, a couple people were discussing that same guy mentioned by Manalli, in reference to Gaik. Here's the link:
http://zodiackiller.21.forumer.com/viewtopic.php?p=37197&sid=24455bd5e28ac15f7d5bff43bd739d03

Here's a quote from one member(you can simply sub the name MANALLI for GAIK)


" Yes, it's Dostoevsky, and this makes for what I think is a compelling argument about Gaikowski as the Zodiac, and why he was able to stop. One of Dostoevsky's most important books is Crime & Punishment (hinted at in the article); the main protagonist, Raskolnikov, imagines himself to be a revolutionary Superman in the Nietzschean mold, to whom rules do not apply and so he murders a pawnbroker and her sister, rationalizing it to be for the greater good.
If Gaikowski was thinking along the same lines, seeing himself as Raskolnikov, the Z murders could be seen as an attempt to destabilize society (a common theme of his other writings), for what he saw as the greater good, and which would be justified politically. Z in his letters stays very far away from politics other than taunting the wholly ineffectual police, since that would give up the game. But once it didn't take much effect, Gaikowski as not a deranged serial killer driven to kill, but goofy theorist trying to make a political statement through killings and more especially the letter writing, he was able to stop without any problem.
Anyway, it makes sense to me, and the more references to Dostoevsky I see in Gaik's writing the more I'm sure that it could be the explanation for why Z is doing his thing, and the persistent mystery of why he was able to stop so abruptly
"


And here's another old ZK.com thread, discussing TEDK in reference to Dostoievski.
http://www.zodiackiller.com/mba/ozs/761.html

Once again, a quote from the poster:
"It's interesting to note that in the Kropotkin and Garnett translations of Dostoevsky the word "nasty" is used very frequently--even in the title of one of Dostoevsky's short stories, "A Nasty Tale." There must be some very frequently-used Russian word that corresponds closely in the same sense that we use it. Kaczynski was a big Dostoevsky reader. He got it from his mother"

I dont know enough about TedK or Gaik to know if either of them ever mentioned Dostoievski,but I know that Manalli did!





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PostSubject: Re: Fred Manalli   Thu Sep 13, 2012 2:42 am

Jem wrote:
The article in this thread that's about Manalli overseeing a student project - any way we could find some of the students whose names are listed there? Just to see what they remember about him, personality, character, whatever might be of interest.

Here's something I googled on Dan Curley.

Daniel Curley Papers, 1932-91 | Archon Sandbox
sandbox.archon.org/latest/?p=collections/controlcard&id=13655
Title: Daniel Curley Papers, 1932-91 Add to your cart. ID: 15/7/37 ... include Stanley Elkin, Roger Ebert, Hilton Kramer, Fred Manalli, John Moffitt, and C. P. Snow.

Looks like Fred was in good company! Roger Ebert, a student of Curley, the famous movie critic, and C. P. Snow, a well-known author. Four of these guys are in Wikipedia. Moffit, a televison writer and producer, is not, but seems to be quite successful. And then there's Manalli... he won an award for his writing, but that's about it. Just doesn't seem to fit in with the rest, imo. Yes, he died relatively young, but it doesn't seem like he was on track to becoming a great writer. Or great anything else. His letters to Curley don't seem particularly interesting (outside of the fact that they match Z so well!). I'm just wondering why Curley would want to keep up a correspondence with Manalli for so long.

Interesting fact. Like Manalli, Dan Curley died because of injuries sustained in a car crash. His car was struck by another vehicle as he was going through an intersection, and he died of complications of a broken neck he suffered in the crash. This was in 1988, in Florida, where he was vacationing. The obit I saw doesn't say who was driving the car Curley was in, but says that "the driver had the green light". Not sure if "driver" refers to the driver of the car Curley was in or the driver whose vehicle struck him.

If anyone's interested in reading a couple of Dan Curley's short stories, here's a link to his book of short stories, Living With Snakes. A NYTimes book reviewer said that Curley was very good at "making good stories out of bad marriages", or something like that.

www.openisbn.com/preview/082030767X/[left]

Very well spotted Jem,

I was doing the same last night and also found the Ebert connection. I was then re-reading this entire thread to see if there was something unrelated already posted before I talked about the Ebert connection and I've just found this post of yours. Re-viewing stuff is good.

To expand on the Ebert thing. I went back and checked the Manalli letters and found no direct mention but with film critic in mind I was suddenly taking on board how much Manalli was into films/movies. He talks in quite a few letters about going to see movies and then gives his opinion on them, subscribes to a movie publication, goes to movie festival with his wife.

Reading then about Ebert, he seems, by all accounts, to be a bit of a prodigy of sorts, starting very young in life in his pursuit of a journalistic direction in life and was studying under Dan Curley in Illinois during a time when Manalli was writing to Dan there. Reckon he was jealous if Dan ever mentioned Ebert in his letters back to the struggling Manalli?

Then it instantly struck me - film critic - "The Exorcist"

Oh how sweet it would have been if he'd called it a satirical comedy - he didn't. Here's the review - http://rogerebert.suntimes.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/19731226/REVIEWS/301010310/1023

What did catch my attention though was the date 12/26/73 one month and 3 days prior to the Exorcist letter, which starts with an alternative critique of the movie, dated 1/29/74

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PostSubject: Re: Fred Manalli   Thu Sep 13, 2012 2:48 am



Attention to postage stamps, hangs out with dead people? lol

EDIT: Oh and now he's signing off with an F,S combo that looks like a symbol

EDIT 2: Felt-pen?

EDIT 3: And he's doing the P.S. thing. "P.S. be sure to print" "P.S. the code coupled with this map"

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PostSubject: Re: Fred Manalli   Thu Sep 13, 2012 4:47 am

Trav wrote:
Oh how sweet it would have been if he'd called it a satirical comedy - he didn't. Here's the review - http://rogerebert.suntimes.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/19731226/REVIEWS/301010310/1023

What did catch my attention though was the date 12/26/73 one month and 3 days prior to the Exorcist letter, which starts with an alternative critique of the movie, dated 1/29/74
_____________________________________________________________________
You bet Fred would be jealous of Roger Ebert, 7 years younger and far more successful. FM describes his teaching job as "shoveling s*** at the J.C."

And Zodiac's alternative (funny!) critique! Compare "satirical comedy" to -

Roger Ebert -
I am not sure exactly what reasons people will have for seeing this movie; surely enjoyment won't be one, because what we get here aren't the delicious chills of a Vincent Price thriller, but raw and painful experience. Are people so numb they need movies of this intensity in order to feel anything at all? It's hard to say.

Did Curley ever mention his student, Ebert? Even if he didn't, I can't believe Fred didn't know about him. What a zynch you found there!
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PostSubject: Re: Fred Manalli   Thu Sep 13, 2012 9:29 am

traveller1st wrote:
morf13 wrote:
Manalli writes about a guy named Dostoievski in one of his letters. As it turns out, on an old ZK.com thread, a couple people were discussing that same guy mentioned by Manalli, in reference to Gaik. Here's the link:
http://zodiackiller.21.forumer.com/viewtopic.php?p=37197&sid=24455bd5e28ac15f7d5bff43bd739d03

Here's a quote from one member(you can simply sub the name MANALLI for GAIK)


" Yes, it's Dostoevsky, and this makes for what I think is a compelling argument about Gaikowski as the Zodiac, and why he was able to stop. One of Dostoevsky's most important books is Crime & Punishment (hinted at in the article); the main protagonist, Raskolnikov, imagines himself to be a revolutionary Superman in the Nietzschean mold, to whom rules do not apply and so he murders a pawnbroker and her sister, rationalizing it to be for the greater good.
If Gaikowski was thinking along the same lines, seeing himself as Raskolnikov, the Z murders could be seen as an attempt to destabilize society (a common theme of his other writings), for what he saw as the greater good, and which would be justified politically. Z in his letters stays very far away from politics other than taunting the wholly ineffectual police, since that would give up the game. But once it didn't take much effect, Gaikowski as not a deranged serial killer driven to kill, but goofy theorist trying to make a political statement through killings and more especially the letter writing, he was able to stop without any problem.
Anyway, it makes sense to me, and the more references to Dostoevsky I see in Gaik's writing the more I'm sure that it could be the explanation for why Z is doing his thing, and the persistent mystery of why he was able to stop so abruptly
"


And here's another old ZK.com thread, discussing TEDK in reference to Dostoievski.
http://www.zodiackiller.com/mba/ozs/761.html

Once again, a quote from the poster:
"It's interesting to note that in the Kropotkin and Garnett translations of Dostoevsky the word "nasty" is used very frequently--even in the title of one of Dostoevsky's short stories, "A Nasty Tale." There must be some very frequently-used Russian word that corresponds closely in the same sense that we use it. Kaczynski was a big Dostoevsky reader. He got it from his mother"

I dont know enough about TedK or Gaik to know if either of them ever mentioned Dostoievski,but I know that Manalli did!






Good Find!

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PostSubject: Re: Fred Manalli   Thu Sep 13, 2012 10:41 am

Beyond the Valley of the Dolls 1970

Arthur Lonergan - Art Director, Jack Martin Smith - Art Director, David Hall - First Assistant Director, Russ Meyer - Director, Dann Cahn - Editor, Dick Wormell - Editor, Stu Phillips - Composer (Music Score), Jack Martin Smith - Production Designer, Fred Koenekamp - Cinematographer, Russ Meyer - Producer, Stuart A. Reiss - Set Designer, Richard Overton - Sound/Sound Designer, Russ Meyer - Screenwriter, Roger Ebert - Screenwriter, Paul Dukas - Featured Music

Read more: http://www.answers.com/topic/beyond-the-valley-of-the-dolls#ixzz26MLhiASz

Lots of zync.

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PostSubject: Re: Fred Manalli   Thu Sep 13, 2012 12:19 pm

Not sure why I didn't post this up before.


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PostSubject: Re: Fred Manalli   Mon Sep 17, 2012 9:13 pm

Thought I'd have a go at some close up work and was in the middle of doing a comp for one of the lines of the Stine letter - lot's of p's and d's and c's and e's to compare, a nice spread of character usage.

Now. Of course it was going well enough, you know Freddie, never a dull moment then I saw this. For a moment I though ok, wait, maybe I've just seen it somewhere else because I did, I saw it in the Stine letter but I hadn't just seen it there, I'd seen it on the first page of Manalli's writing as well.

Say hello to my little friend - the double dot.

EDIT: larger


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PostSubject: Re: Fred Manalli   Mon Sep 17, 2012 9:15 pm

traveller1st wrote:
Thought I'd have a go at some close up work and was in the middle of doing a comp for one of the lines of the Stine letter - lot's of p's and d's and c's and e's to compare, a nice spread of character usage.

Now. Of course it was going well enough, you know Freddie, never a dull moment then I saw this. For a moment I though ok, wait, maybe I've just seen it somewhere else because I did, I saw it in the Stine letter but I hadn't just seen it there, I'd seen it on the first page of Manalli's writing as well.

Say hello to my little friend - the double dot.




WOW, that is unusual, good eye!

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PostSubject: Re: Fred Manalli   Mon Sep 17, 2012 9:24 pm

Amazing!!! I think I need new reading glasses. Cool

I've never seen a double-dotted "i" until Manalli and the Z comparison. How rare is this style?
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PostSubject: Re: Fred Manalli   Mon Sep 17, 2012 9:30 pm

Thanks Zam.

This is just another example of what I've been saying. I can't go near this guy's writing without finding something and I've known that all along from the first curves and angles I started to see. This one is a little gem though and proceeding along this path may produce others. The path being very close up work.

It's a minefield of these things and they all have to be found. Letter by letter by stroke by tick by dot. That's why I take lots of breaks lol, it's heavy going. Can't just find one thing, it has to all be gone over all again after any find. No wonder Sherwood drank, if he did.

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PostSubject: Re: Fred Manalli   Mon Sep 17, 2012 9:32 pm

patinky wrote:
Amazing!!! I think I need new reading glasses. Cool

I've never seen a double-dotted "i" until Manalli and the Z comparison. How rare is this style?

Therein lies the conundrum. Is it common? I don't know.

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PostSubject: Re: Fred Manalli   Mon Sep 17, 2012 9:36 pm

Here's the section of the page it came from. You will I hope spot other Z matches but either way I wanted to show it in context so it's clear it's not a scan error or anything like that. It's right in the middle with a green underline.


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PostSubject: Re: Fred Manalli   Mon Sep 17, 2012 9:50 pm

In fairness to you both. As you know I work across 2 screens. One a 40" Samsung at 1080p and the other, much closer to me, a 21" widescreen acer also which I think is set at 1080p but can go higher so it's not a case of others not spotting things. I just have the set up to look for these things and ok, yes, maybe a little bit of a good eye lol.

Here's what it looks like when I take a screen grab - it includes both monitors as one - just showing off now lol. Very Happy



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PostSubject: Re: Fred Manalli   Mon Sep 17, 2012 11:00 pm

Another great find TRAV,does Manalli do it more than once? Does Zodiac?

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PostSubject: Re: Fred Manalli   Mon Sep 17, 2012 11:40 pm

morf13 wrote:
Another great find TRAV,does Manalli do it more than once? Does Zodiac?

Don't know yet. Such is the hunt. Now we're down to close character analysis. Every little crinkle and curve. Tonight's find is an example of why I can't get to other POI's writing just yet. I'm not done with this guy.

There may be a point where I am stumped and that is what I'm looking for but it just won't show so now it really is down to letter by letter as it should be. Once I reach a point on a certain letter that I can't explain then it will be time to stop. But, as you see, you can't stop late enough otherwise I wouldn't have found this.

Go over it, go over it again and then do it standing on your head. That's my approach and if this pans out to be nothing I'll do it all over again with another POI's writing. Then I'll look at those results all combined overall. Dog with a bone, that pretty much sums me up. Rip it to shreds then find another bone for comparison. This ones a marathon and maybe one for others after us to complete.

EDIT: I won't look tonight but I will look.

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