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 Fred Manalli

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traveller1st
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PostSubject: Re: Fred Manalli   Sun Jun 03, 2012 2:45 pm

I hear ya Tahoe. It's not enough for me either. I'm just trying to see if this too good to be true. All I can say is there's similarities here on many levels that are becoming more intriguing.

Here's a complete letter from Manalli. Is't a short half page one from 1969. I have just picked it at random and like wise picked the Stine letter at random mostly because it's completely real given the shirt piece and all.

The first image shows Manalli's writing over laid but offset so you can see both sets of writing.

The second image shows them on top of each other. I have actually lined up the word "frunt2 from frunt tires on the zodiac letter with the word friends from Manalli's. To be honest I mistook them for the same word when I was overlaying which is why I picked those. Look what happens to everything else once that's done. Lines end in similar places, some words combine to create new words because the cursive in Manalli's lines up and fills in the non cursive blanks in Zodiac's writing. Look at the flow of the lines - they are practically identical. They follow the same line from left to right sloping and meandering and they leave the correct line spacing.




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PostSubject: Re: Fred Manalli   Sun Jun 03, 2012 2:45 pm

Here's a fun little project, guess which numbers are Zodiac's writing & which ones are Manalli's....

#1


#2


#3


#4


#5


#6


#7


#8


#9


These ones above may be too easy for the reason I will mention after I see a guess or two.

#10


#11

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PostSubject: Re: Fred Manalli   Sun Jun 03, 2012 2:54 pm

I think it would be wise not to limit our investigation of Manalli to handwriting analysis alone. What else can we dig up on this guy to tie him to the Zodiac murders?
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PostSubject: Re: Fred Manalli   Sun Jun 03, 2012 2:56 pm

Nachtsider wrote:
I think it would be wise not to limit our investigation of Manalli to handwriting analysis alone. What else can we dig up on this guy to tie him to the Zodiac murders?

I agree completely. Let's start with this stuff and see if there is any truth to these statements by Manalli:



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PostSubject: Re: Fred Manalli   Sun Jun 03, 2012 3:09 pm

Somehow, some way, Manalli found himself mentioned in a book about the Zodiac. Somehow, some way, he was a POI in another bay area case(s). His writing shows many similarities in formation, spacing, etc to Zodiac's. Supposedly Manalli was ruled out of the Z case via prints as I recall. If thats true, then that's great. But is it true? Graysmith wrote that Manalli taught in the Riverside area. That sounds powerful on the surface, but where did Graysmith get this from, and is it true? I think Seagull is of the opinion that Manalli may make a good suspect in another bay area case(s), and that he likely was not Zodiac. I am not sure if Seagull feels any different about Manalli after the writing samples, but I would like to hear her overall opinion of Manalli as a Z suspect and as a suspect in any other Bay area cases. I still think it is interesting that Manalli wrote a story called PARADISE, even if it is another Zyncronicty.

One thing fits,he died in 1976, and there was never another confirmed Z letter after 74. Personally, I dont have any reason to want Manalli to be Zodiac, I still have a couple fave suspects of my own, but the writing comparisons are jumping out at me. And one thing I wanted to mention was that the writing comparisons we have seen of Manalli's are in ink pen vs. Zodiac's which are in felt tip, and I think that might change Zodiac's true writing just enough. If he wrote all of his letters in ink pen, perhaps they would be more of a match to the samples we see from Manalli. By the way, somebody posted earlier in this thread that Fouke stated that Zodiac may have been about 6ft2. Anybody have this in writing anyplace?

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PostSubject: Re: Fred Manalli   Sun Jun 03, 2012 3:10 pm

Not that my opinion matters here but I am just not seeing connections between the two writings.

I also don't see a resemblance of the composite to the class photo of Manalli. The composite is very well done so I'm assuming it is at least partially accurate.

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PostSubject: Re: Fred Manalli   Sun Jun 03, 2012 3:16 pm

patinky wrote:
Not that my opinion matters here but I am just not seeing connections between the two writings.

I also don't see a resemblance of the composite to the class photo of Manalli. The composite is very well done so I'm assuming it is at least partially accurate.


The only pic we see of him is from 1957,12 years before the Z sketch and with no glasses. Not a real good pic to use for comparison purposes, but in just looking at the chin, jaw, & lips, I see some similarity. I dfor one would like to know what Manalli looked like in 69, and if he ever wore glasses around that time.


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PostSubject: Re: Fred Manalli   Sun Jun 03, 2012 3:19 pm

The only reason Manalli found his way into Graysmith's Zodiac books was because Graysmith wanted him to be Allen's accomplice. That being said, I seriously doubt Manalli was ever investigated as a Zodiac suspect, much less cleared. Santa Rosa? Yes. But Zodiac? Nope, not unless I see evidence that they ran his prints.

It was me who posted the six-foot-two thing, morf. Got it from Jake's article; his source is Mel Nicolai of the DOJ:

http://www.trutv.com/library/crime/serial_killers/notorious/zodiac/14.html

I just realized that Manalli could potentially resemble the Napa composite.
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PostSubject: Re: Fred Manalli   Sun Jun 03, 2012 3:22 pm

Nachtsider wrote:
The only reason Manalli found his way into Graysmith's Zodiac books was because Graysmith wanted him to be Allen's accomplice. That being said, I seriously doubt Manalli was ever investigated as a Zodiac suspect, much less cleared. Santa Rosa? Yes. But Zodiac? Nope, not unless I see evidence that they ran his prints.

It was me who posted the six-foot-two thing, morf. Got it from Jake's article; his source is Mel Nicolai of the DOJ:

http://www.trutv.com/library/crime/serial_killers/notorious/zodiac/14.html

I just realized that Manalli could potentially resemble the Napa composite.

Thanks for that.

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PostSubject: Re: Fred Manalli   Sun Jun 03, 2012 3:28 pm

morf13 wrote:
patinky wrote:
Not that my opinion matters here but I am just not seeing connections between the two writings.

I also don't see a resemblance of the composite to the class photo of Manalli. The composite is very well done so I'm assuming it is at least partially accurate.


The only pic we see of him is from 1957,12 years before the Z sketch and with no glasses. Not a real good pic to use for comparison purposes, but in just looking at the chin, jaw, & lips, I see some similarity. I dfor one would like to know what Manalli looked like in 69, and if he ever wore glasses around that time.


Somebody that wishes to remain nameless sent me this pic(as a joke?? or serious??)and asked if Manalli could be the mystery guy seen with Darlene. At first I simply chuckled,but the mystery guy does have a similar chin/lips to both the Z sketch & to Manalli. Still in all, I would guess NO about the mystery guy being Manalli. I am trying to picture him with longer hair & glasses,but his eyebrows look bushier. Yeah, I gotta say no way. in my opinion.



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PostSubject: Re: Fred Manalli   Sun Jun 03, 2012 4:38 pm

Just to add this as I've just found it.


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PostSubject: Re: Fred Manalli   Sun Jun 03, 2012 5:37 pm

Nachtsider wrote:
I think it would be wise not to limit our investigation of Manalli to handwriting analysis alone. What else can we dig up on this guy to tie him to the Zodiac murders?

Totally agree and I'm worn out finding similarities, which ultimately might turn out to be just that and nothing more. Smile

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PostSubject: Re: Fred Manalli   Sun Jun 03, 2012 7:03 pm

Ummm me again.

So I noticed this guy used a James Joyce quote in his typed material as a reference I think to his own potential mental state.

Here is the line.



End here. Us then. Finn, again! Take. Bussoftlhee, mememormee! Till thousandsthee. Lps. The keys to. Given! A way a lone a last a loved a long the / riverrun, past Eve and Adam's, from swerve of shore to bend of bay, brings us by a commodius vicus of recirculation back to Howth Castle and Environs. (628.13 to 3.3)

It's from Finnegan's Wake. Here's some interesting facts about how that was written.

Language and style

""riverrun, past Eve and Adam’s, from swerve of shore to bend of bay, brings us by a commodius vicus of recirculation back to Howth Castle and Environs."—
The opening line of Finnegans Wake, which continues from the book's unfinished closing line[168]"

Joyce invented a unique polyglot-language or idioglossia solely for the purpose of this work. This language is composed of composite words from some sixty to seventy world languages,[169] combined to form puns, or portmanteau words and phrases intended to convey several layers of meaning at once.

Sound like familiar behaviour to anyone? Seeing all those doubles caught my attention I had a look and I knew I'd find it. And I did.


"the chrism for the christmass" from Finnegan's Wake.

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PostSubject: Re: Fred Manalli   Sun Jun 03, 2012 7:09 pm

So CHRISTMASS is derived from Joyce's work?

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PostSubject: Re: Fred Manalli   Sun Jun 03, 2012 7:15 pm

Would seem to be plausible source. Whether there are other printed uses of it I couldn't say but since this guy's own words led me to joyce and there it was. There's also the switching of the i and the e in the Excorcist letter that seems to follow this Joyce method employed for Finnegan's Wake.

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PostSubject: Re: Fred Manalli   Sun Jun 03, 2012 8:01 pm

The James Joyce Finnegan's Wake deal is interesting in itself. Whether or not Manalli is the Zodiac it does sound like the use of this polyglot-language in Joyce's work may have influenced Zodiac. You have made a very good connection, Traveller!

I do think that Zodiac was smarter than average, well read and exposed to the arts but still had a feral streak in him.
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PostSubject: Re: Fred Manalli   Sun Jun 03, 2012 8:24 pm

traveller1st wrote:
Just to add this as I've just found it.


Another good find. Very odd spacing, I would think only a small portion of the population would write this word in this fashion, Manalli & Z have yet another thing in common.

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PostSubject: Re: Fred Manalli   Sun Jun 03, 2012 8:31 pm

Seagull wrote:
The James Joyce Finnegan's Wake deal is interesting in itself. Whether or not Manalli is the Zodiac it does sound like the use of this polyglot-language in Joyce's work may have influenced Zodiac. You have made a very good connection, Traveller!

I do think that Zodiac was smarter than average, well read and exposed to the arts but still had a feral streak in him.

Zodiac was pretty fond of the word 'SHALL'. Finnegan's wake uses that word 140 times by my count.

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PostSubject: Re: Fred Manalli   Sun Jun 03, 2012 8:52 pm

A possible message from Zodiac, found floating in a bottle, was dated FEB 2...Joyce's Birthday...
http://zodiackillersite.forummotion.com/t481-zodiac-message-in-a-bottle

And check this out:
"Finnegans Wake is based on the structure of the zodiac, the zodiac signs being derived from the nature of numbers and a corresponding geometric sequence"
here- http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Finnegans-Wake/

More on Joyce:
http://www.themodernword.com/joyce/joyce_communities.html

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PostSubject: Re: Fred Manalli   Sun Jun 03, 2012 8:55 pm

Some more from Finnegan's Wake.

"took up a jiminy and all the lilipath ways to Woeman's"

leaden be light, lather be dry and it be drownd

Six thirteens at Blanche de Blanche's of 3 Behind Street and 2 Turnagain Lane. Awabeg is my callby, Magnus here's my Max,
Wonder One's my cipher and Seven Sisters is my nighbrood

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PostSubject: Re: Fred Manalli   Sun Jun 03, 2012 10:22 pm

James Joyce also wrote something called..'Ulysses'.

Here is an excerpt:
"On its co-operative dial glow the twelve signs of the zodiac"


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PostSubject: Re: Fred Manalli   Sun Jun 03, 2012 10:38 pm

traveller1st wrote:
Some more from Finnegan's Wake.

"took up a jiminy and all the lilipath ways to Woeman's"

leaden be light, lather be dry and it be drownd

Six thirteens at Blanche de Blanche's of 3 Behind Street and 2 Turnagain Lane. Awabeg is my callby, Magnus here's my Max,
Wonder One's my cipher and Seven Sisters is my nighbrood

WOW that's good stuff Shocked !

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PostSubject: Re: Fred Manalli   Sun Jun 03, 2012 10:39 pm

Nice I was wondering about his other works. Someone might want to check out Antonin Artaud too as Mananlli quotes him as well. Seems to be an off the wall poet type with occult interests.

Here's the quote. Manalli said it made him cry and he might hang it on his wall. So I guess he was quite taken by it lol.


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PostSubject: Re: Fred Manalli   Sun Jun 03, 2012 10:47 pm

More from Finnegans Wake

for Jaun, by the way, was by the way of becoming

O, by the way, yes,another thing occurs to me.

(Correspondents, by the way, will keep on asking me what is the correct garnish to serve drisheens with. Tansy Sauce. Enough)

plain English for a married lady misled heaps by the way,

very pure nondescript, by the way, sometimes a palmtailed otter

Bushmillah ! Do you think for a moment? Yes, by the way. How very necessarily true! Give me fair play. When?

EDIT: more

just as every hazzy hates to having a hazbane in her noze.

was billowing across the wide expanse of our greatest park (note - there's 3 other instances of the word billow - nothing for billowy). There are several instances of willowy though.

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PostSubject: Re: Fred Manalli   Mon Jun 04, 2012 9:35 am

Seagull wrote:
The James Joyce Finnegan's Wake deal is interesting in itself. Whether or not Manalli is the Zodiac it does sound like the use of this polyglot-language in Joyce's work may have influenced Zodiac. You have made a very good connection, Traveller!

I do think that Zodiac was smarter than average, well read and exposed to the arts but still had a feral streak in him.

I agree. Even if nothing else comes of it regarding Manalli, it's rewarding to stumble on little things like this as far as Zodiac himself is concerned. Another little avenue of exploration for answers.

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