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 Fred Manalli

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traveller1st
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PostSubject: Re: Fred Manalli   Mon Jun 04, 2012 9:58 am

morf13 wrote:


And check this out:
"Finnegans Wake is based on the structure of the zodiac, the zodiac signs being derived from the nature of numbers and a corresponding geometric sequence"

l

affraid Wow, I only just read that. Nice find.

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PostSubject: Re: Fred Manalli   Mon Jun 04, 2012 10:38 am

More cipher connections this time.

The Tragic Story of J.F. Byrne

One of the classic true stories in the history of cryptographic invention is that of J. F. Byrne.

Mr. Byrne was a close friend and fellow student (at Dublin) of James Joyce. In his work "Portrait of the Artist as a Young Man" Joyce modeled his character "Cranley" after Byrne.

In 1918 Byrne devised a code system that he thought amazingly simple and yet unbreakable. The "machine" used to produce his cipher (which he called his "Chaocipher") required nothing more than a cigar box and a few odds and ends.

In writing about his invention, Byrne states:

"When I first set out to discover a system for concocting an indecipherable cipher, I had it clearly in mind that such a system would and should be universally available, I envisioned, for instance, the utilization of my method and machine by business men for business communications, and by brotherhoods and social and religious institutions. I believe that my method and machine would be an invaluable asset to big religions institutions, as for example the Catholic Church with its world-wide ramifications. I had, and still have in mind, the universal use of my machine and method by husband, wife, or lover. My machine would be on hire, as typewriter machines now are, in hotels, steamships, and, maybe even on trains and airlines, available for anyone anywhere and at any time. And I believe, too, the time will come—and come soon—when my system will be used in the publication of pamphlets and books written in cipher with will be unreadable except by those who are specially initiated."

Unfortunately, no one of importance took his machine seriously. He demonstrated it to the head cryptanalysts of the US Signal Corps, but was rejected.

His system was also rejected by the State Department, the Department of the Navy, and AT&T.

Byrne did not, however, give up. He wrote and published a small booklet in which he enciphered known texts in his Chaocipher, and defied the world to break it. Later Byrne published his autobiography, in which he included a lengthy message in his Chaocipher. He offered to pay $5000 to anyone who could correctly break his cipher. He sent copies to the American Cryptogram Association, the New York Cipher Society, and to Norbert Wiener (father of cybernetics), and to other believers in the capabilities of the electronic calculating machines.

Unfortunately, no one ever claimed the prize, and Byrne died a few years later, taking his secret to the grave.

If an autobiography detailing the author’s memories of James Joyce seems like a strange place to find an uncracked cipher, that’s because it is. J.F. Byrne inserted his cryptosystem challenge into the book “Silent Years”, offering $5,000 to whoever solved it. At least three people know how Byrne’s Chaocipher – a machine small enough to fit into a cigar box used to encrypt the message – actually works, but no one has ever solved the code.


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PostSubject: Re: Fred Manalli   Mon Jun 04, 2012 10:59 am

This has been solved BTW since 2010.

In May 2010 the Byrne family donated all Chaocipher-related papers and artifacts[3] to the National Cryptologic Museum in Ft. Meade, Maryland, USA. This led to the disclosure of the Chaocipher algorithm.[4]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chaocipher

Here's a detailed PDF of how it works.

http://www.mountainvistasoft.com/chaocipher/ActualChaocipher/Chaocipher-Revealed-Algorithm.pdf

and some more - whole site this time.

http://www.mountainvistasoft.com/chaocipher/

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PostSubject: Re: Fred Manalli   Mon Jun 04, 2012 11:30 am

Interesting stuff!

traveller1st wrote:
Sound like familiar behaviour to anyone? Seeing all those doubles caught my attention I had a look and I knew I'd find it. And I did.

"the chrism for the christmass" from Finnegan's Wake.

I've been doing some corpus-oriented experiments recently (processing large collections of text) and, discounting all the spellings of "Christmas" as "Christmasse" (a common, archaic variation), here are the results of searching about 30,000 books for text that includes "Christmass":

Title: John Smith, U.S.A. (1905)
Author: Eugene Field
12696.txt: That was vouchsafed that Christmass tide

Title: Robert Kerr's General History and Collection of Voyages and Travels, Volume 18
Historical Sketch of the Progress of Discovery, Navigation, and
Commerce, from the Earliest Records to the Beginning of the Nineteenth
Century, By William Stevenson (1824)
Author: William Stevenson
13606-8.txt:Christmass Harbour, productions and animals, xv. 241.

Title: Curiosities of Literature, Vol. II (of 3)
Edited, With Memoir And Notes, By His Son, The Earl Of Beaconsfield
Author: Isaac Disraeli
16350-0.txt:Amidst "the grand Christmass," a personage of no small importance was

Title: Col fuoco non si scherza (1901)
Author: Emilio De Marchi
19059-8.txt:bei Christmass illustrati che uscissero a Londra: e cos? tra una


Title: A Righte Merrie Christmasse
The Story of Christ-Tide (1894)
Author: John Ashton
19979-8.txt:"The Queen intendeth to make a mask this Christmass, to which my lady
19979-8.txt:this Christmass."
19979-8.txt:for disport of Christmass to the people, was torne up and cast down by
19979-8.txt:"The Cupboard of Plate is to remain in the Hall on _Christmass_ day,
19979-8.txt:_Christmass_ day, and other days, as, afterwards, is shewed: touching
19979-8.txt:_grand Christmass_, a solempn consultation was held at their
19979-8.txt:_Christmass_ day.
19979-8.txt:Christmass_, then the two youngest Butlers must light two Torches, and
19979-8.txt:Supper, during the twelve days of Christmass. The antientest Master of
19979-8.txt:[Sidenote: _Christmass day._]
19979-8.txt:"At Dinner, the Butler appointed for the _grand Christmass_, is to see
19979-8.txt:to be observed in all things, during the time of Christmass. The like
19979-8.txt:"The Butler appointed for Christmass is to see the Tables covered, and
19979-8.txt:Christmass day, both the first and second Course to the highest
19979-8.txt:on Christmass Eve.
19979-8.txt:_Christmass_ makes a famous Pye, which they call _Christmass_ Pye: It

Title: Christmas: Its Origin and Associations
Together with Its Historical Events and Festive Celebrations During Nineteen Centuries (1902)
Author: William Francis Dawson
22042-8.txt:Christmass, Christmes. Christmas has also been called _No?l_ or
22042-8.txt:on "Christmass-daye," at this period, are referred to in the
22042-8.txt:And the play was performed at this "Grand Christmass" kept by the

The full quote there is interesting:
Quote :

"Christmas" (pronounced Kris'mas) signifies "Christ's Mass," meaning
the festival of the Nativity of Christ, and the word has been
variously spelt at different periods. The following are obsolete forms
of it found in old English writings: Crystmasse, Cristmes, Cristmas,
Crestenmes, Crestenmas, Cristemes, Cristynmes, Crismas, Kyrsomas,
Xtemas, Cristesmesse, Cristemasse, Crystenmas, Crystynmas, Chrystmas,
Chrystemes, Chrystemasse, Chrystymesse, Cristenmas, Christenmas,
Christmass, Christmes.

Title: The Sundering Flood (1914)
Author: William Morris
25547.txt:hear the Christmass in the church of Allhallows, which had been

Title: A Little Book of Profitable Tales (1901)
Author: Eugene Field
8abpt10.txt:+THE DIVELL'S CHRISTMASS+
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traveller1st
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PostSubject: Re: Fred Manalli   Mon Jun 04, 2012 11:41 am

Excellent stuff Dave,

I had seen the spelling 'Cristmasse' on my brief nosying but those others are good solid finds. Even more references...yay lol.

EDIT: a nice little visual of the byrne cipher construction thingy (wheel)

http://www.inference.phy.cam.ac.uk/cs482/projects/chaocipher/


EDIT: My brain's catching up I think. So does your research suggest a reasonably low (so far) to read that word in. Also looking at the Quote you highlighted, y and i or i and y are/were reasonably interchangeable. As in Friday or Fryday.

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PostSubject: Re: Fred Manalli   Mon Jun 04, 2012 2:32 pm

Ok I took a look at the car door again and intended to match letter for letter but noticed this by accident. I've included the Zodiac f vs Manalli's f as well cause I like it lol.

The thing I noticed and have tried to show here is once again how a random piece of Manalli's text can be overlaid on zodiac stuff and the formas, spacing and angles match. I've picked the word the and copied and pasted it onto the car door at 20%. Look carefully at how it transects the zodiacs writing and matches up with is in angles and curves that do cross, sometimes a few times per letter or number. Also how the letters of the word the line up with subsequent letters, numbers or line up with other lines as well.

There's loads more but I was running out of space and it was becoming hard to see lol.


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PostSubject: Re: Fred Manalli   Mon Jun 04, 2012 7:33 pm

I heard from NAPA today, and was surprised that they knew of Manalli right away. The Detective also told me that although he 'may' have been ruled out in some fashion as a Zodiac suspect, he couldnt verify that. He also said that he was aware of details about Manalli from "the Graysmith book, and the various message boards"...which is pretty cool since it shows that the investigators actually check out various Zodiac sites & forums.

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PostSubject: Re: Fred Manalli   Mon Jun 04, 2012 7:43 pm

Wow, that's kind of exciting to hear! I hope they realize that Graysmith doesn't always have things quite right.

Did you get a sense that they might have read the most recent stuff that Traveller has been posting? I think the James Joyce writings with the parallels to Zodiac writings is super.
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PostSubject: Re: Fred Manalli   Mon Jun 04, 2012 8:17 pm

Seagull wrote:
Wow, that's kind of exciting to hear! I hope they realize that Graysmith doesn't always have things quite right.

Did you get a sense that they might have read the most recent stuff that Traveller has been posting? I think the James Joyce writings with the parallels to Zodiac writings is super.

We talked about the Joyce stuff, the same misspellings etc,and he even said that when Trav completed all of his side by side comparisons, he would be happy to look them over. So we will see where it goes. Even if Manalli isnt Z, he may have given us a big clue with the Joyce stuff.

The same misspellings from Z that we see in Joyce's book, CHRISTMASS,WOEMAN,DROWNDING,etc,and the use of the word SHALL 140 times in the story, seems like Zodiac may have soaked it all up.

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PostSubject: Re: Fred Manalli   Tue Jun 05, 2012 6:34 am

Anyone like ALFRED E. NEUMAN? This would be a solution for the Unsolved 13 if you let N be both F as in Fred and M as in Manalli.

Morf wrote:
Even if Manalli isnt Z, he may have given us a big clue with the Joyce stuff.

Indeed, this is getting really, really interesting!

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PostSubject: Re: Fred Manalli   Tue Jun 05, 2012 11:46 am

More stuff. Some you have seen but there's been more work done on them and some you haven't seen. There are others to come.






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PostSubject: Re: Fred Manalli   Wed Jun 06, 2012 12:29 pm

I'm looking at few things at once and I keep finding things because all these things seem to overlap. Another once from Finnegans Wake


A bone, a pebble, a ramskin; chip them,
chap them, cut them up allways;


taken in giving the saloot, band your hands going in, bind your heads coming out, and remoltked to
herselp in her serf's alown, a weerpovy willowy dreevy drawly and the patter of
so familiars, farabroads and behomeans, as she shure sknows, boof for a booby,
boo:

Schottenly there was a hellfire club kicked out through the wasistas of
Thereswhere.

And the chicks picked their teeths and the dombkey he begay began. You can ask
your ass if he believes it.

And so like that former son of a kish who went up
and out to found his farmer's ashes we come down home gently on our own
turnedabout asses to meet Margareen.

Hello! Tittit! Tell your title?

he plunged both of his newly anointed hands

Arise, Land-under-Wave!

Not true what chronicles is bringing his portemanteau priamed full potato wards.

Tip. And it is surely a lesser ignorance to write a word with every consonant too few than to add all too many. The end?
Say it with missiles then and thus arabesque the page. You have your cup of scalding Souchong, your taper's waxen drop,
your cat's paw, the clove or coffinnail you chewed or champed as you worded it, your lark in clear air. So why, pray, sign anything
as long as every word, letter, penstroke, paperspace is a perfect signature of its own?

tell that old frankay boyuk to bellows upthe tombucky in his tumtum argan and give us a gust of his gushy old. Goof!

Note
his sleek hair, so elegant, tableau vivant. He vows her to be his own honeylamb,
swears they will be papa pals, by Sam, and share good times way down west in a
guaranteed happy lovenest when May moon she shines and they twit twinkle all the
night, combing the comet's tail up right and shooting popguns at the stars.

that royal pair in
their palace of quicken boughs hight The Goat ant Compasses ('phone number
17:69, if you want to know 4)

Like pudging a spoon fist of sugans into a sotspot of choucolout. the
virtuoser prays, olorum What the D.V. would I to that for? That's a goosey's
ganswer you're for giving me, he is told, what the Deva would you do that for? 1
Now, sknow royol road to Puddlin, take your mut for a first beginning, big to
bog, back to bach. Anny liffle mud which cometh out of Mam will doob, I guess.
A.I. Amnium instar. And to find a locus for an alp get a howlth on her bayrings
as a prisme O and for a second O unbox your compasses. I cain but are you able?
Amicably nod. Gu it! So let's seth off betwain us. Prompty? Mux your pistany at
a point of the coastmap to be called a but pronounced olfa
. There's the isle of
Mun, ah! O! Tis just. Bene! Now, whole in applepine odrer

I see now. We move in the beast circuls. Grimbarb and pancercrucer! You took
the words out of my mouth. A child's dread for a dragon vicefather. Hillcloud
encompass us!


Bully, his Ballade Imaginaire which was to be dubbed Wine, Woman and Waterclocks, or How a
Guy Finks and Fawkes When He Is Going Batty, by Maistre Sheames de la Plume,
some most dreadful stuff in a murderous mirrorhand)

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PostSubject: Re: Fred Manalli   Wed Jun 06, 2012 1:40 pm

Trav, first off, this is really terrific work. One thing I would mention regarding some of the Finnegan's Wake references is that Zodiac was quoting Gilbert and Sullivan's Mikado rather than using those words himself. Of course, the others that are mirrored in Finnegan's Wake are Zodiac's own usage - like 'allways',

I think possibly the whole portmanteau idea really appealed to Z for some reason. Have you come across any other literature that indicates the same? Double meaning as well which is possible why the interest in SLA as per that letter.

I still have a theory that Z was intentionally using the + sign between some words like 'woeman + her' because in other instances he wrote the word 'and'. I'm convinced he was wanting the reader to anagram those words or perform some manipulation on them.

On a different note, I stumbled across this thread recently:

http://www.johndouglasmindhunter.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=3176&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=450

Note that just before half way down the posts, the member The Real Suspect Zero states the following:

Quote :
Leigh happened to know Fred Manalli, the SRJC instructor who was killed in an auto accident on Hwy 12 on his way to Sebastopol where he lived.

He is referring to ALA who he claims in the rest of the forum to have spent considerable time with many years back, in his research on a Zodiac book. Not sure he ever published the book however he is convinced that ALA is the Zodiac and moreover, that he had an accomplice. I've read a lot of the posts and he never associates ALA anywhere else with Manalli, nor does he mention Manalli or think of him as the accomplice. So, I only found it interesting in relation to this discussion and wondered if it was possible to verify.
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PostSubject: Re: Fred Manalli   Wed Jun 06, 2012 2:34 pm

Thanks Luke.

Yeah , I'm just throwing stuff out as I find it. Even if it's just similar or zodiac-esque regarding the Joyce stuff. Even if the whole Manalli thing turns out to be Zynchronicity it's thrown up some interesting stuff.

Even regarding Zodiac's handwriting. I'm coming across similarities between accepted zodiac stuff and the more contentious stuff because of this.

Regarding other literary works, I think Morf is looking at the other Joyce Stuff when he has time and Doranchak is bulk searching for words like christmass in other publications and has listed some in this thread.

As for the Manalli, Allen connection. I've seen it mentioned earlier in the thread but I don't know anything else about it. Haven't had the time to check to be honest but I will check your link. It's something to help me take a break from letter comparisons Smile

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PostSubject: Re: Fred Manalli   Wed Jun 06, 2012 7:35 pm

Ok,

I've been working on the infamous 3 stroke k now for about 8 hours and there's still quite a way to go. Basically I've taken all of zodiac's k's and put them together and am about halfway through Manalli's.

I have another separate theory about the k which I will ponder and work on as part of this but for now I'm primarily concerned with the 'relatively' easy task of finding an example of Manalli doing a three stroke k or Zodiac doing a 2 stroke K.

Found Manalli's 3 stroke.



Zodiac not so clear cut but I think I've found a very close similarity between zodiac's k's when they drift into very nearly being a 2 stroke and Manalli's K's when they drift and threaten to become a 3 stroke (obviously not counting the one where it is a three stroke.)

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PostSubject: Re: Fred Manalli   Wed Jun 06, 2012 9:47 pm

Joyce purposely tried to use as many words as possible in Finnegan's Wake. He literally just copied from the dictionary and it's boasted that the work contains every word in the English language.

I don't know if Joyce was common high school reading at the time, I wouldn't think so because he was unpopular in America in the 30's and 40's. By the 60's though, I think you would have college students reading his work, especially English and literature students. Maybe that's something there. He was also a notorious libertine, and maybe that could have appealed to the "free love" hippies of the time.

Campbell and other Joyce scholars have pointed out his influence from Dante, and Fin's wake is a sort of allegory to Purgatorio. Although Joyce's version is based on his study of Jung's archetypes and the themes of resurrection and his own Catholic upbringing of redemption; I don't think it was inline with Z's "slaves in paradice" (maybe a Dante reference?) it could easily appeal to someone who digged pseudo-religious iconography and didn't really grasp the real philosophical meaning of the work.

To me that really fits the personality of Zodiac as the wannabe who was desperately trying to sound like he was a part of the intelligentsia, when he was just an underachiever with a victim complex.
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PostSubject: Re: Fred Manalli   Thu Jun 07, 2012 12:22 am

In working with Trav, I too have been noticing the continued similarities between Manalli & Zodiac, INCLUDING A 3 STROKE K by Manalli! I have used a 3 stroke K myself, for as long as I can remember writing. Its the only natural way I can do it. The only way I would do a 2 stroke would be for me to change it intentionally. Yet, Manalli uses mostly 2 strokes, then all of a sudden, we catch a 3 stroke in his letters. Thats really odd, and should never happen. Unless he purposely added it, or accidentally did one (because he was used to writing them sometimes for some reason, like Zodiac leters).















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PostSubject: Re: Fred Manalli   Thu Jun 07, 2012 1:13 am

Thanks for putting all that together Morf. Looks really well.

So what you might ask does Trav do when he's not staring at the letters of dead people for hours on end? Why naturally Trav watches films that were once watched by dead people. Specifically the film Manalli mentioned in his letter dated Aug 27th 1969. "I am curious (yellow)".

You can read about it here.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/I_Am_Curious_(Yellow)

So .... Well, I probably already biased myself given the date of the mention and yes I was looking out for anything Berryessa-ish. You'll have allow me that because there was no other real motivation for sitting through 2 hours of Swedish Art-Noir with no subtitles. Actually I'm probably going to get the subs and go through it again just to be thorough.

I've tried to be objective and not get to carried away tuning everything into some hidden zodiac thing. The only thing that kinda jumped out at me was the white convertable, an MG. It seemed to feature a reasonable amount in the film. There's also a scene shot at a cabin in the woods, where Lena, the main character is trying yoga poses from a book and one of them is the hogtied position.
The guy with the convertible shows up after this and after initially being threatened with a shot gun, he and Lena make love and lie naked in each others arms under a tree. They then drive to a lake, where after some sort of argument in Swedish, they end up doing it in the water. Just prior to that the guy is washing his car which is pulled off the road beside the lake and he hunkered down washing the door. Looks like what you imagine it looks like. A guy, hunkered down beside the door of a white convertible with a black top parked just off the road.

After this Lena has a dream where she ties a bunch of men to a tree. Convertible guy turns up, she shots him with the shotgun and cuts his you-know-what off.

Throughout the whole there's things posted on telegraph poles and written in Swedish. Oh and the K is a Zodiac 3-stroke. Lena has chalkboard which features heavily in the film with numbers on it that are constantly rising. So there's white convertible, hand writing, lake, murder, rope, tree, young couple, girl is blonde, guy wears sunglasses. you get the idea.

Another bit I suppose is more subjective, in a scene nearing the end, Lena has another freak out in Swedish, wrecks her room, takes two daggers that are on her door and holding one in each hand, she kisses each one in turn before plunging them into the eyes of a portrait of Franco Francisco.

So yeah, theres all the nice keywords there, murder, knife, gun etc etc bla bla.

To be honest I'd really hoped for a hood.

Then something unexpected happened. A banjo serenader. It's another scene near the very end. Lena and convertible guy are in what looks like an old hospital and they are both in separate room getting bathed and scrubbed then oil poured over them. It cuts occasionally to shots of the film crew and suddenly one of them is just sitting there and serenading everyone with a banjo.

The other film was "The Pawnbroker" starring Rod Steiger. Manalli mentions seeing this in a 1965 letter. The thing that struck me about this was the lake thing seemed to feature quite a bit and again it was in flash backs (or dreams). the flash backs featured him and his family having a picnic, under a tree, by a lake. You see it right at the start of the film and it last up until the point where all the family fun turns to fear but you don't see what it is that's alarmed them.

In the end you do and as they are looking towards the road, a motorcycle comes into view from behind a tree near them and it has three nazi soldiers in it and they get out, approach the fence and point their guns at the famliy under the tree.

Nice taste in films this guy had.

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PostSubject: Re: Fred Manalli   Thu Jun 07, 2012 1:19 am

Stranger & Stranger Shocked

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PostSubject: Re: Fred Manalli   Thu Jun 07, 2012 1:59 am

Tell me about it,

Here's some screen grabs might illustrate better.








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PostSubject: Re: Fred Manalli   Thu Jun 07, 2012 3:36 am

That is some weird shit. I find myself more fascinated by it than by the handwriting. This Manalli guy is starting to look more and more intriguing.
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PostSubject: Re: Fred Manalli   Thu Jun 07, 2012 4:01 am

duckking2001 wrote:
To me that really fits the personality of Zodiac as the wannabe who was desperately trying to sound like he was a part of the intelligentsia, when he was just an underachiever with a victim complex.

I would say that fits Manalli to a tee. All he seems to do is gripe about feeling like he's being left behind. He refers to Berkely as a Cathedral of Learning, an Athens-by-the-sea and he dislikes it because it is so hard to penetrate it's inner chambers.

Regarding the whole "Paradice" and "slaves" thing. I think Z was full of it. He seems to cross references here in that he say about "being reborn" into paradice which does speak of ressurection to me.

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PostSubject: Re: Fred Manalli   Thu Jun 07, 2012 4:06 am

Nachtsider wrote:
That is some weird shit. I find myself more fascinated by it than by the handwriting. This Manalli guy is starting to look more and more intriguing.

It was intriguing enough for me from the onset with the handwriting. The rest of this stuff is just getting bizarre. I have to wonder why all of these things are are literally popping out of the woodwork. It's not like much digging is needed, it's just kinda falling in line and all from a few pages of Manalli's writing.

I'm telling you now. If someone had written on that car door in "I am Curious (yellow)" I would have turned the computer off and nailed the windows shut.

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PostSubject: Re: Fred Manalli   Thu Jun 07, 2012 4:32 am

Ok last one for tonight or rather this morning.

The last scene in I am Curious Yellow involves Lena returning a "set of keys" to the director that was filming them and then she gets in the lift with convertible guy.

The credits roll.

Then the very last image you see is "one of those nice butons" on a cap.


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PostSubject: Re: Fred Manalli   Thu Jun 07, 2012 8:03 am

Wow, thats weird. The peace button...really cool. What year did that movie come out again?

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PostSubject: Re: Fred Manalli   Today at 9:51 pm

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