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Zamantha
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PostSubject: Re: Deana Hooper   Thu Jun 07, 2012 11:17 pm

Sandy & I first learned about Deana Hooper from Lyndon Lafferty, then
I recalled the story about a missing Chinese women.
Found on St. Johns Mines Road & Columbus Parkway.

Deana is in Lyndon's Book, Page 280.

Here is the location where Sandy figured out Deana's Body was left.
She was found by kite flyers. The location was in high weeds 40 feet
of the nearest roadway. It would of been impossible for someone to
find her unless passing by right at that spot as the kite flyers did.

Photos by Zam*





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PostSubject: Re: Deana Hooper   Fri Jun 08, 2012 6:23 am

morf13 wrote:
bentley wrote:
Yes he did. Moved at some point to Fairfield I believe.

I think this is him:

Las Vegas
Charles A. (Art Lindsey
August 28, 1935 - April 12, 2005
Art was born in Elreno, Oklahoma and passed away in Las Vegas on Tuesday, April
12, 2005. He attended Stockton Grammar Schools, Lodi High School, Willows High
School and Graduated from Hayward High School before serving 4 years in the US
Air Force. After the Air Force he worked in construction through out California
and retired as custodian of Saint Johns Presbyterian Church in San Francisco.
Art is survived by his son, ******* Lindsey of Las Vegas; daughter, ******
******* of San Diego; brothers,***** Lindsey of San Diego, ***** Lindsey
of Stockton; step-mother,*** Lindsey of San Diego; companion, ****** ***** of
Las Vegas; numerous nieces and nephews and a great-niece, ***** Lindsey.
At Arts request, no services and a private interment
.

A couple things stand out to me. He worked "construction through out CA" and had relatives in San Diego. My questions are, 1- did he work construction in Riverside 1966(when Bate's School was being worked on),and 2- did he have family in San Diego back when Joyce & Johnny Swindle were killed?

I found a CHUCK LINDSEY living in San Diego in 1959 who worked for WILSHIRE OIL OF CALIFORNIA. If that is him, then that puts him down there around the time of the Swindles murders. Oil refineries near the Lake Herman Crime scene as well as the Domingos/Edwards scene.Maybe this deserves more discussion in a CHUCK LINDSEY suspect thread?

IF that is him, and IF he had anything to do with that church in 1969, it is pretty interesting, because the church is located 0.3 from the Paul Stime crime scene:

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PostSubject: Re: Deana Hooper   Fri Jun 08, 2012 6:27 am

Now thats very interesting Foreigner, and I am pretty sure thats him. The problem is, I dont know if he was there in 69. He supposedly, according to Graysmith, moved to Nevada and opened up a bar. That makes it seem like he would have had to have moved back to SF to work at the church. Seems like it would be unrealitic for him to drive back n forth.

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PostSubject: Re: Deana Hooper   Fri Jun 08, 2012 11:45 am

morf13 wrote:
Now thats very interesting Foreigner, and I am pretty sure thats him. The problem is, I dont know if he was there in 69. He supposedly, according to Graysmith, moved to Nevada and opened up a bar. That makes it seem like he would have had to have moved back to SF to work at the church. Seems like it would be unrealitic for him to drive back n forth.

Wasn't that guy "Jack" (in RG's book) a cop/ex-cop?


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PostSubject: Re: Deana Hooper   Fri Jun 08, 2012 12:31 pm

Very interesting - I wonder if the responsible could be the same person involved in the SRHM? MO's are similar.
I know that area is a distance from Sonoma county, but killers tend to move around.

Notice the development taking place across the street. That street is Columbus Parkway? When was the picture taken? Would that development have been there at the time of the murder?

Since the Graysmith book was brought up, I have read comments and also heard him admit he fabricated some things to "spice up" the book. Does anyone concur?

Once something like that happens, it is hard to separate fact from fiction, and makes it hard to believe what is said. Was it the first or second book where this information came from? I have read them both many times, but cannot remember. I might also add that the first edition (a black cover hardback) has things the paperbacks, including the famous yellow one, does not have. The 1st edition is hard-to-find. Maybe there is a thread for Graysmith? No - just found a thread about a CD on Graysmith's book. Maybe there should be one. I will have to think of a few questions, but I already started one. I think it is time to give that book a good looking over. If there IS a thread on it already, I could not find it.
This thread specifically refers to the first book.

Oh, very nice pictures, Zam. I hope the area STAYS that way!


Last edited by trainmaster on Fri Jun 08, 2012 12:44 pm; edited 2 times in total (Reason for editing : arthritis)
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PostSubject: Re: Deana Hooper   Fri Jun 08, 2012 2:25 pm

tahoe27 wrote:
morf13 wrote:
Now thats very interesting Foreigner, and I am pretty sure thats him. The problem is, I dont know if he was there in 69. He supposedly, according to Graysmith, moved to Nevada and opened up a bar. That makes it seem like he would have had to have moved back to SF to work at the church. Seems like it would be unrealitic for him to drive back n forth.

Wasn't that guy "Jack" (in RG's book) a cop/ex-cop?


Yes...Jack was a cop, or he at least worked for the Sheriff's Dept. and was fired. Graysmith mentioned him being tall and skinny.

How was it this Chuck guy was found to be "Jack" in Graysmith's book?

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PostSubject: Re: Deana Hooper   Fri Jun 08, 2012 3:09 pm

Bentley knows the answer. I think Chuck Lindsey's Family posted on a message board someplace, and they put 2 & 2 together, and 'Jack' was really Chuck, and he lived on the Swett Ranch, had pics of the victims, etc.. I know he 'worked' for the Sheriff's Dept, not sure if he was a cop.

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PostSubject: Re: Deana Hooper   Fri Jun 08, 2012 5:38 pm

Yes, Zam, thank you for posting the photos. Its a help to those of us east of the Mississippi.
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PostSubject: Re: Deana Hooper   Sun Jul 15, 2012 4:59 pm

The pictures of where Deana Hooper's body was found that Zam posted , is just north of Blue Rock Springs Park. The road that you see to the right, is Columbus Parkway, we where looking at the crime scene from St Johns Road. I doubt that the homes / buildings where there in 1974, that would be easy to confirm.
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PostSubject: Trainmaster   Mon Jul 16, 2012 1:30 pm

In response to Trainmaster, RG did "spice" up his books. I prefer to say he lied. His books duped a lot of people with wax "facts," and will affect any future prosecution of the Zodiac in a negative way.
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PostSubject: Re: Deana Hooper   Mon Jul 16, 2012 3:33 pm

dagmajor wrote:
In response to Trainmaster, RG did "spice" up his books. I prefer to say he lied. His books duped a lot of people with wax "facts," and will affect any future prosecution of the Zodiac in a negative way.


I hate to think that RG lied, rather than believe he spoke to people involved in the case , (some related to Z victims ) , and was misinformed. He believed them to be totally honest and they weren't.
Regardless of all of that, I think the book gave a lot of good information about Zodiac and the Z victims. I particularly liked Kathleen John's description of her abductor, because it is a perfect match to my poi LOL. Without it, I may never have recognised him waring the same clothes he had on the night she was taken for that long scary ride. He had the nerve to ware it, just to see if I would pick up on it, and of course I did !

Sorry, I just can't help relating my poi to most everything, like others we know LOL.
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PostSubject: To Sandy   Mon Jul 16, 2012 4:17 pm

About the POI's, I totally agree with you there. There are a lot of them floating around and everyone wants to be right.

About RG, I have to disagree. I saw an interview of his on TV and he had ALA locked in his sights. He did everything to make the evidence fit the suspect, instead of finding a suspect the evidence fit. TV is notorious for this on his site. I do not have a POI because I am still sorting through all the evidence, eliminating "evidence" that does not exist.
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PostSubject: Re: Deana Hooper   Mon Jul 16, 2012 7:32 pm

Very true RG did do some things I think to fit Allen. Allen was a interesting suspect, because I believe he enjoyed the attention he was getting . He wasn't worried because of course he was not the Zodiac, but his game playing bit him in the rear end.
People like Don Chaney and George Bawart convinced RG that he was the Zodiac and RG went with it.
I feel the same thing is happening with Gyke, he may have thought it funny that Goldcatcher believed he was the Zodiac and perhaps Gyke played it up for the fun of it.

I didn't look for my poi, he came after me in Vallejo 1968, the evidence he left for me, only the Zodiac could have had it.
That is why I continue to try and find out what his true name is, so I can get a paper trail on him. This man has been ID'd as a man who tried to kill a girl in the 90's, so I feel that I am on the right trail. If you are interested in knowing more , please go to the thread ( Sandy's POI ). None of it has been embellished, hard to believe but very true. Thank you for your input, I am always interested in what people are thinking about the Z .
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PostSubject: Re: Deana Hooper   Mon Jul 16, 2012 8:02 pm

Thanks for your comment, DagMajor:

I hope you have your documentary coming to you soon.

Whether Graysmith was mis-informed (which I doubt) or, more likely, spiced up his book for more appeal, the effect is the same. What parts can one believe and where does the truth end and the exaggeration begin?

Graysmith's first book was far better than the sequal, in my opinion.
He did exactly as DagMajor said, and which I have constanstly stated:

The suspect MUST match the evidence; the evidence is not made to match the suspect.

This procedure is what Graysmith did in his sequal book "Zodiac Unmasked."
Most of the book was devoted to ALA and the fact he was the Zodiac.
Graysmith also claims a close friendship with David Toschi (which others have called into doubt and is very possible) and uses that as the two of them (Graysmith and Toschi) working as a team to nail Allen.

The one holdout to the ALA camp was Ken Narlow. According to "Zodiac Unmasked" Narlow is shown some documents by the VPD and then says "Allen HAS to be the Zodiac."

Some people who met ALA said he was kind of creepy and strange - that in itself does not make him a killer or prove he had anything to do with the Zodiac killings.

I will add Sandy has some very interesting suspects, there.
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PostSubject: Re: Deana Hooper   Mon Jul 16, 2012 8:44 pm

Thanks Trainmaster, You are probably right and Graysmith did do what you said, I just felt he was sincere in his feelings about Allen when he and I spoke , but then I am a very poor judge of character LOL.

I totally agree about the evidence fitting . I would love to be able to say that my poi's were in the crime scene areas at the right times, but so far I have one in only two of them . Still working on the paper trails, with some new names.
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PostSubject: Deana   Tue Jul 17, 2012 8:45 am

I have been looking into this case recently and it doesn't appear to be a Zodiac crime.

I know what everyone is going to say. The Zodiac said he would change the way he collects his slaves.

This may be true. The Zodiac may change his way, as he did with Stine (totally out of character for him) but one thing the zodiac cannot change is his own personality. He was a coward. He shot or stabbed the male first in every case because he was afraid of confrontation. I do not believe he would have confronted Deana.

I believe this is just a case of rape and murder. I believe the girls "hooked up" with servicemen and went seperate ways. Deana ended up getting raped then murdered. Edith felt guilty so waited to report the disappearance. She may have been scared or threatened. She may know more than what she has reported.

I'm just theorizing, but I do not think it is beneficial to list every unsolved crime from 1963 to 2012 on this site. We should probably study each case really deep before posting it. If you are trying to solve the Zodiac case, it is not advisable to cloud your own investigation.

What are the links between this and the Zodiac? Same town? Same church? I bet any member can find a "link" between unconnected homicides if they tried hard enough.

In fact, I know of two unsolved crimes that took place overseas, have an Air Force connection, and resemble Zodiac crimes. However, that would mean the Zodiac was active duty, and I cannot prove that so I have not posted those crimes.

My point is, research as much as possible before posting. Families are ruined when POI's are named incorrectly. This site is already so much better than (redacted).com. Lets make it better. You people can become the REAL Zodiac experts if you do not repeat the same mistakes other sites make. Email other members for information. All of the talk does not need to be here.
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PostSubject: Re: Deana Hooper   Tue Jul 17, 2012 1:54 pm

As far as I know Deana's sister was not with her at Mare Island, did I miss something ? Her father did work there , she seemed too young to be hooking up with guys period, let alone that much older. If she was looking to be hooked up , it wouldn't be smart on her part to do that at her fathers work place, unless he just didn't care.
The only evidence of a possible rape, were her slacks pulled down. The killer if it was the Z ,might have wanted it to look like a rape murder instead of just murder.

The Stine case was first thought to be a robbery gone bad.
One case as an example, was on Easter Sunday 1988 a young girl is followed outside by my poi, her body is found the next day. Looking at the crime scene , it looked like a rape -murder. She was naked from the waist down, her blouse was pulled open to expose her breast. (She was not raped.) If she was found 9 months later in a field, it would have been thought she was raped.

I do believe Z did change his MO to confuse the police, near another murder scene, ( early 90's ) graffiti was written in large letters : Confusion prevails ! I have no way of knowing if my poi did the writing or not, but it sure as heck wasn't like any gang graffiti.

Knowing that for what ever reason Zodiac liked to use a phone after his crimes "if it was convenient". I went to the nearest phone booth to see if any clue might be there . Scratched on the glass of the booth were the words" Suicide is death" and "Satan Saves". I can't say that this is a Z crime , but at the time I was curious that it could be. I wanted to see what if anything I could find, that might help in any way.
I did find a lot of evidence at the crime scene , that told me the perp might have gone back to the scene many times over that past yr. There was a pile of cigarette butts, starting at the top of the pile ,they look newer than the middle of the pile and below very old ones. I found a handkerchief with what looked like a spot of blood on it, that had to there for a very long time,( because it had grown moss on it) .

I called the park police and told them what I had found, they came to collect it. They seemed to be very surprised because they said that they went over the crime scene and didn't see any of what I found. Perhaps the killer went back to put the things I found to taunt the police ?

There are lots of crazy killers out there, but there is something different about what I believe the z enjoys doing after he kills. And that is leaving clues on purpose that are hard to follow, then writing about it, ( however short the writing might be).
I also believe that he has written other letters that are believed to be a copy cats, some probably were, but others could have been his.

These are my beliefs , I also follow my hunches. Not everything is put out there on these sites , we do have meetings and talk on the phone about a lot of what we are looking at. Ricardo and I have traveled hundreds of miles to all of the possible Zodiac crime scenes.
Zamantha has gone with me to Vallejo many times to talk to ex VPD about the case, and to the library to gather Z news , that she scans and posts for others to read. We all try to work together, to see if we can't come up with something new that might be a missing piece of the puzzle.

I appreciate everyone I have met and believe they are sincere in trying to solve the Z case. We need to all work together and put our differences aside, to get the job done. I do believe this case can be solved .


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PostSubject: Re: Deana Hooper   Tue Jul 17, 2012 2:16 pm

For what it may be worth:

- Deana Hooper lived in Vallejo, 901 Georgia Street, female victim, eighteen years, had dark hair
- her sister / Mrs. Tonna Albright reported in July that she had last been seen on Friday, 11.07.1975 at the Mare Island 'Enlisted Men's Club', which is close to a Sandy Beach Rd. Missing however was reported late on 15.07.1975
- her remains were found in high weeds on a hillside in Vallejo, just 40 feet off Eastern direction near to St. John´s Mine Road, heading off Columbus Parkway. Both of her arms were straight above her head as if she had been dragged there from the road, presumably from Columbus Parkway. Her red longleeved buttoned blouse was found pulled over her head in the opposite direction. On her right hand she wore a ring with a red stone. The other clothing was scattered around in the area. A leather sandal was found 14 feet away, black denim jeans were found being opened and one leg pulled out.
- No weapon, bullet, purse or identification was found. Officer Hoffmann guessed that the crime happened there or close to where she was found, as there has been dead grass under her body. Officers were surprised that her body lay there so long as it might easily have been seen from well-frequented Columbus Parkway.
- a phone call was mentioned, some witness named 'Darlene' (not Ferrin, she died years before) mentioned that another 'witness' lived at 'Sandy Beach Road' just the way down Sonoma Bvd/Lincoln Ave.
- Elaine Lehtinen who was abducted and never seen again, worked at Mare Island as a Navy employee (detectives worked with an investigator from the Naval Criminal Investigative Service of the U.S. Navy at Camp Pendleton in the Lehtinen case. The U.S. Navy investigator reviewed the case and helped with interviews. Evidence was sent to a U.S. Department of Defense DNA laboratory in Georgia for testing.)


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PostSubject: Re: Deana Hooper   Tue Jul 17, 2012 2:17 pm

dagmajor, I enjoy reading your posts and would very much like to read about the z like crimes you have found. It is believed by many LE that the Z was in the military, probably Navy, so please tell us . I don't think it is a waste of time looking at any crimes, let alone a possible Z crime.

These murders you found, if they were done by Z , could fit into a time line that we need to fill.
I read your profile and see that your hobby is Military. I would like to know if there is a way to find out the ship Enterprise's schedule for 1963-70 ? I think I read that it was a air craft carrier, and it is about to retire ? The wingwalker's that Z wore, tells me that he could have been a airplane mechanic ? Could a civilian be on a ship and do that sort of job ?
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PostSubject: Re: Deana Hooper   Tue Jul 17, 2012 2:24 pm

OOPs, I thought she was 13 yrs old ! The paper was so old that the 18 was not clear sorry.
Thanks Quicktrader , that changes my thoughts about why she was at Mare Island.

Hoffman also felt that because of the one leg being exposed and the unbuttoned slacks, that she was raped.
I went there with Zamantha and the description of where she was found was close to the hillside, but on pretty flat land.
The position of her body when found, seemed to indicate that she was pulled by her leg /or legs
to her resting place. I am thinking she was killed elsewhere and put where she was found. Why else would she need to be dragged ?

The weeds under her body would have died in a very short time, like with in weeks.I know this because I sometimes kill weeds by putting down plastic over the weeds.It works better in the summer heat.
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PostSubject: Re: Deana Hooper   Tue Jul 17, 2012 2:42 pm

sandy betts wrote:
As far as I know Deana's sister was not with her at Mare Island, did I miss something ? Her father did work there , she seemed too young to be hooking up with guys period, let alone that much older. If she was looking to be hooked up , it wouldn't be smart on her part to do that at her fathers work place, unless he just didn't care.
The only evidence of a possible rape, were her slacks pulled down. The killer if it was the Z ,might have wanted it to look like a rape murder instead of just murder.

The Stine case was first thought to be a robbery gone bad.
One case as an example, was on Easter Sunday 1988 a young girl is followed outside by my poi, her body is found the next day. Looking at the crime scene , it looked like a rape -murder. She was naked from the waist down, her blouse was pulled open to expose her breast. (She was not raped.) If she was found 9 months later in a field, it would have been thought she was raped.

I do believe Z did change his MO to confuse the police, near another murder scene, ( early 90's ) graffiti was written in large letters : Confusion prevails ! I have no way of knowing if my poi did the writing or not, but it sure as heck wasn't like any gang graffiti.

Knowing that for what ever reason Zodiac liked to use a phone after his crimes "if it was convenient". I went to the nearest phone booth to see if any clue might be there . Scratched on the glass of the booth were the words" Suicide is death" and "Satan Saves". I can't say that this is a Z crime , but at the time I was curious that it could be. I wanted to see what if anything I could find, that might help in any way.
I did find a lot of evidence at the crime scene , that told me the perp might have gone back to the scene many times over that past yr. There was a pile of cigarette butts, starting at the top of the pile ,they look newer than the middle of the pile and below very old ones. I found a handkerchief with what looked like a spot of blood on it, that had to there for a very long time,( because it had grown moss on it) .

I called the park police and told them what I had found, they came to collect it. They seemed to be very surprised because they said that they went over the crime scene and didn't see any of what I found. Perhaps the killer went back to put the things I found to taunt the police ?

There are lots of crazy killers out there, but there is something different about what I believe the z enjoys doing after he kills. And that is leaving clues on purpose that are hard to follow, then writing about it, ( however short the writing might be).
I also believe that he has written other letters that are believed to be a copy cats, some probably were, but others could have been his.

These are my beliefs , I also follow my hunches. Not everything is put out there on these sites , we do have meetings and talk on the phone about a lot of what we are looking at. Ricardo and I have traveled hundreds of miles to all of the possible Zodiac crime scenes.
Zamantha has gone with me to Vallejo many times to talk to ex VPD about the case, and to the library to gather Z news , that she scans and posts for others to read. We all try to work together, to see if we can't come up with something new that might be a missing piece of the puzzle.

I appreciate everyone I have met and believe they are sincere in trying to solve the Z case. We need to all work together and put our differences aside, to get the job done. I do believe this case can be solved .




Hi Sandy,

you mention that 1988 girl - was she murdered just inside the Napa County line in Napa Square, a housing subdivision in American Canyon? I know about such one, however lack of her name, details etc..maybe you got some more information about that (pm)?

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PostSubject: Re: Deana Hooper   Tue Jul 17, 2012 6:36 pm

Sandy:

In answer to your question “Could a civilian be on a ship and do that job?”

Of course civilians were on the carriers! The ships unloaded their planes at NAS for repairs and went to HPNS for servicing. That task was done strictly by civilians.

At that time, at NIS, there was NO belief that the killer was in the Navy, or employed by the Navy. If he was a civilian employee, doing his crimes off base and on his own time, NIS would not be involved anyway. That was for local LE to do. If the killer was military, that was a different matter, or if he were a civilian and committed a crime on base, that would bring in NIS.

I think I mentioned to you, before, that all the ships’ schedules were made out and were classified. Any records today would be in the Federal Records Center in San Bruno. Unless the information was de-classified, it still remains out of anyone’s hands. The USS Enterprise’s upcoming retirement has nothing to do with those records.

The wingwalker shoes would have been used by the mechanics who worked on the planes, not the ship!

I worked for Naval Investigative Services at the time, so your questions are right up my alley!
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PostSubject: Re: Deana Hooper   Tue Jul 17, 2012 7:22 pm

And the wingwalker shoes were also issued to personnel that worked with refueling and rearming. The shoes were worn anywhere static electricity was a concern. Fuelers, ammo handlers, mechanics, ...
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PostSubject: Re: Deana Hooper   Tue Jul 17, 2012 8:20 pm

@Trainmaster

With regard to my last post, what the hell happened to Elaine Lehtinen? She was not that sort of girl being raped by someone or abducted by Z..rather that sort of 'tough girl'.


Could it've been that she found out about Z's activities? Was she killed because of her work? Was she a colleague of yours?

QT
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PostSubject: Re: Deana Hooper   Tue Jul 17, 2012 11:05 pm

Quicktrader

The person you are asking about was either (I forget) a Commissioned or NCO Officer stationed at a local Naval Base. NCIS did become involved, but that was at a time I was not on the "ready" team. Each agent takes a turn for a week being on the "ready team" and the others are available for "back-up.
Therefore, I was not involved in that case.

Details about the case are classified and I cannot comment on them.

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