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 People living in Vallejo with ties to Deer Lodge or the Deer lodge area

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morf13
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PostSubject: People living in Vallejo with ties to Deer Lodge or the Deer lodge area   Thu Jan 12, 2012 10:45 am

I am compiling a list of people that were from the Deer Lodge area of MT or that were incarcerated in Deer Lodge prison itself. The reason being, it is possible that Zodiac slipped up and left a clue to his ID at berryessa when he said "Deer Lodge". My thinking is that Zodiac,whomever he was, lived in Vallejo. If we took all men living in Vallejo that were the right age,general physical description,etc, and had lived in or around Deer Lodge(or been in prison there), this group of men would be rather small and worth taking a look at. If we found a person that fit this category and had also been in Riverside in 66-67,then that would be really good.

I will put in these persons as I find them. If they are deceased,I will post their names. I am not saying they are suspects,but merely that they should be looked at as they likely are in a small group of people. If anybody has any comments,or thoughts,ideas,etc,please chime in.


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PostSubject: Re: People living in Vallejo with ties to Deer Lodge or the Deer lodge area   Thu Jan 12, 2012 11:00 am

This first guy is:
RONALD ARTHUR CLINTON.



This pic is from 1960.This guy grew up and went to school less than an hour from Deer Lodge. He took Aeronautics in school,which involved airplane mechanics(wingwalkers clue?. Certainly a stocky looking guy,resembles the Berryessa guy a bit,but not the Stine sketch and doesnt have on glasses. The Berryessa girls said the guy they saw was 28-30,the same aprox age as the guy seen by Kathleen Johns. This guy was 28-29 during the Z attacks& Johns abduction.The most interesting piece of info is that during the z murders, this guy lived at 801 Virginia St,which is about a half mile from 1300 Virginia St where Darlene Ferrin lived. That seems like a possibility at least that they may have known each other,seen each other around,ect. This guy got married in 1972,which if he wa sZ, could explain lack of Z letters and activity from 71-74. This guy went on after Vallejo to live in Napa.




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Last edited by morf13 on Thu Jan 12, 2012 11:27 am; edited 1 time in total
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PostSubject: Re: People living in Vallejo with ties to Deer Lodge or the Deer lodge area   Thu Jan 12, 2012 11:25 am

Another person:Edward V. Goalie

Goalie wasnt in Vallejo that I know of but he did die in San Fran a couple months before the Z murders. He had been in prison in Deer Lodge MT. Edward V. Golie died in San Francisco on 10/18/68 at the young age of 42 ( 2 months before the first Z murder) Obviously, he was not Z. But since Z used the Deer Lodge Reference, maybe they were a relative of this guy,friend,co-worker,etc.
There is a thread bout the possible Deer lodge clues in the Berryessa crime here:
http://zodiackillersite.forummotion.com/t1045-deer-lodge-connection

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PostSubject: Re: People living in Vallejo with ties to Deer Lodge or the Deer lodge area   Thu Jan 12, 2012 12:38 pm

There's no reason why Ron couldn't look like the SFPD composite. Just give him a crew cut and glasses and voila. His 'stocky' look is what I expect to see when people post pictures of potential Zodiac candidates, not people with bony faces and so on.

I think he might be worth checking on further, morf. Is he still alive, for one?
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PostSubject: Re: People living in Vallejo with ties to Deer Lodge or the Deer lodge area   Thu Jan 12, 2012 12:42 pm

Nachtsider wrote:
There's no reason why Ron couldn't look like the SFPD composite. Just give him a crew cut and glasses and voila. His 'stocky' look is what I expect to see when people post pictures of potential Zodiac candidates, not people with bony faces and so on.

I think he might be worth checking on further, morf. Is he still alive, for one?

No he died in 06 or 07. I am digging up more on him and already working on writing samples.

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PostSubject: Re: People living in Vallejo with ties to Deer Lodge or the Deer lodge area   Thu Jan 12, 2012 12:59 pm

Cool. Military service, background and major life events would be useful, too. Very Happy
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PostSubject: Re: People living in Vallejo with ties to Deer Lodge or the Deer lodge area   Thu Jan 12, 2012 2:33 pm

Nachtsider wrote:
Cool. Military service, background and major life events would be useful, too. Very Happy

I will check. Also, I was thinking, this guy was a junior going into senior year at high school in 1959 when the Deer Lodge Riot happened, and he may have been an impressionable young man and the riot may have stuck with him being so close to him. He certainly could have used it in conversation at Berryessa.

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PostSubject: Re: People living in Vallejo with ties to Deer Lodge or the Deer lodge area   Thu Jan 12, 2012 4:36 pm

It's a solid line of investigation Morf. This thread made me remember something I read on the Zodiac Killer forum a couple of years ago around Bryan's statement. The transcript says he mentioned 'Fern Lock'. One of the deputy wardens back in the 50's - I think up until '57 - was a guy called Vern Lockwood. Quite a coincidence and it alludes to the possibility that Z might have said something along the lines of 'Vern Lockwood's Prison in Montana'. By many accounts, Vern was one of the more sadistic wardens and (if I remember correctly) ended up in trouble with LE at some stage after his retirement whilst working in CA of all places. Long story short, it might be worth focusing on inmates who were in Deer Lodge whilst Vern was still there.

I just did a quick Google and found the old thread. Funnily enough, The Foreigner posted on it back in 2009. Smile

http://zodiackiller.21.forumer.com/a/posts.php?topic=2860&start=65


Last edited by Luke68 on Thu Jan 12, 2012 4:43 pm; edited 2 times in total (Reason for editing : Added a link for further information.)
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PostSubject: Re: People living in Vallejo with ties to Deer Lodge or the Deer lodge area   Thu Jan 12, 2012 5:13 pm

Luke68 wrote:
It's a solid line of investigation Morf. This thread made me remember something I read on the Zodiac Killer forum a couple of years ago around Bryan's statement. The transcript says he mentioned 'Fern Lock'. One of the deputy wardens back in the 50's - I think up until '57 - was a guy called Vern Lockwood. Quite a coincidence and it alludes to the possibility that Z might have said something along the lines of 'Vern Lockwood's Prison in Montana'. By many accounts, Vern was one of the more sadistic wardens and (if I remember correctly) ended up in trouble with LE at some stage after his retirement whilst working in CA of all places. Long story short, it might be worth focusing on inmates who were in Deer Lodge whilst Vern was still there.

I just did a quick Google and found the old thread. Funnily enough, The Foreigner posted on it back in 2009. Smile

http://zodiackiller.21.forumer.com/a/posts.php?topic=2860&start=65

Interesting stuff, thansk for sharing it. So we know that Z was NOT an escapee from the prison,but why did he use the name DEER LODGE PRISON of all the prisons in teh world. That may be a clue to his ID. Was he formerly incarcerated there? Did he have a friend or relative that was? Did he formerly live near there?

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PostSubject: Re: People living in Vallejo with ties to Deer Lodge or the Deer lodge area   Thu Jan 12, 2012 5:23 pm

Well, he might have escaped from there, just not then. There were more than 70 escapes in the 1950s from Montana State Prison.

Here's something else coincidental in a book about Montana and the State prison...



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PostSubject: Re: People living in Vallejo with ties to Deer Lodge or the Deer lodge area   Fri Jan 13, 2012 8:29 am

morf13 wrote:
This first guy is:
RONALD ARTHUR CLINTON.



This pic is from 1960.This guy grew up and went to school less than an hour from Deer Lodge. He took Aeronautics in school,which involved airplane mechanics(wingwalkers clue?. Certainly a stocky looking guy,resembles the Berryessa guy a bit,but not the Stine sketch and doesnt have on glasses. The Berryessa girls said the guy they saw was 28-30,the same aprox age as the guy seen by Kathleen Johns. This guy was 28-29 during the Z attacks& Johns abduction.The most interesting piece of info is that during the z murders, this guy lived at 801 Virginia St,which is about a half mile from 1300 Virginia St where Darlene Ferrin lived. That seems like a possibility at least that they may have known each other,seen each other around,ect. This guy got married in 1972,which if he wa sZ, could explain lack of Z letters and activity from 71-74. This guy went on after Vallejo to live in Napa.




Here is a form this guy filled out...it's a copy, not the original, so when i get the original it may be better quality and easier to read. I wanted to post it for the printed writing to compare to Z and the cursive writing to compare to the Lass xmas card. Any similarities or differences? Also, the guy indicated he was divorced in 1962, but I also found him getting married previously in 1963. I wonder if he made a typo, the marriage was anulled and he didnt have to check off being divorced for that one, or he flat out lied? Maybe ot a big deal either way.


Next is a very close up of the word MONT as written in cursive on the application:

Now, compare that to the cursive letter m in the letter to Donna Lass' sister:

See a match?



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PostSubject: Re: People living in Vallejo with ties to Deer Lodge or the Deer lodge area   Fri Jan 13, 2012 9:23 am

The capital 'R' in the word 'Ronald' is quite different from Zodiac's upper-case 'R', and the lower-case 'd' in same doesn't quite match Zodiac's, either. Upper case 'A' and lower case 't' are fairly similar, though.
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PostSubject: Re: People living in Vallejo with ties to Deer Lodge or the Deer lodge area   Fri Jan 13, 2012 10:22 am

Nachtsider wrote:
The capital 'R' in the word 'Ronald' is quite different from Zodiac's upper-case 'R', and the lower-case 'd' in same doesn't quite match Zodiac's, either. Upper case 'A' and lower case 't' are fairly similar, though.

How about the cursive compared to the Lass xmas card cursive?

I know this isnt enough writing to use for a complete comparison,just seeing what,if anything I can find

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PostSubject: Re: People living in Vallejo with ties to Deer Lodge or the Deer lodge area   Fri Jan 13, 2012 11:11 am

Nachtsider wrote:
The capital 'R' in the word 'Ronald' is quite different from Zodiac's upper-case 'R', and the lower-case 'd' in same doesn't quite match Zodiac's, either. Upper case 'A' and lower case 't' are fairly similar, though.

A long time ago,Foreigner made up this sample of confirmed & unconfirmed Z writing,much of it in color. I like to use it when comparing to other possible documents or POI writing,it really shows the many types of writing styles Z used,and who knows which is his real style. I tend to think that the citizen letter may be his real writing as it was not meant to be linked to him. Also, I tend to think the Berryessa car door was real too as he likely did not spend alot of time disguisng it:


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"Back when I was picking beans in Guatemala, we used to make fresh coffee, right off the trees I mean. That was good. This is shit but, hey, I'm in a police station"
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PostSubject: Re: People living in Vallejo with ties to Deer Lodge or the Deer lodge area   Fri Jan 13, 2012 11:16 am

morf13 wrote:
How about the cursive compared to the Lass xmas card cursive?
Sorry for not mentioning anything earlier, morf - you know how I feel about the Lass case with regards to Zodiac. Razz

My feelings aside, the M does look like an uncanny match.
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PostSubject: Re: People living in Vallejo with ties to Deer Lodge or the Deer lodge area   Fri Jan 13, 2012 11:19 am

Nachtsider wrote:
morf13 wrote:
How about the cursive compared to the Lass xmas card cursive?
Sorry for not mentioning anything earlier, morf - you know how I feel about the Lass case with regards to Zodiac. Razz

My feelings aside, the M does look like an uncanny match.

Yeah,I dont know if Z killed Lass,but think he certainly could have wanted people to think he did.I personally think he sent the letters in her case and the Xmas card.That xmas card was postmarked right in Alameda county where some of his others were sent,plus the double postage...too much for me to think it wasnt Z. But I am with you,I kind of doubt that he killed Lass.

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